HH bug got me ... Part One!

frank bullitt · May 29, 2011, 08:26:00 PM

Fellas, Fellas, you still need to experience the shot! Dvds, videos and books won't make it happen any sooner!

I can read and watch all the videos on computer use and troubleshooting, etc, and still not be an experienced computer expert!

It don't make a "Hill" of beans what ya know!

You still have to walk the talk! Get out there and shoot some varmits, fish, whatever, like Howard.

MT Longbow · May 29, 2011, 08:41:00 PM

Gheese this got twisted in a hurry,

Look , all I wanted to do was try and collect some of the instruction that I have gootten and read about on the HH bows with the straight grip.

Now Thanks to Mudd he helped me get it on the right forum because I meant it for the HH thread, and like a dummy I ended up posting to the general Pow Wow side...my fault, Thank you Mudd.

RDS your points on the armguard while true are well ....not an issue with me as I seldom hit my guard..now I do everyonce and a while but definitely not regularly...and a low brace height of 6.5 inches tends to put the string there. When i shoot my high wrist R&D whips I dont need a guard at all and the brace on those is 7.5" that one inch does make a difference..

RDS , I am VERY interested in a few pics of how YOU hold the bow...I would really like to learn what worked for you (hence a pic or two for a starting point) and then Ill go from there....

The red pressure on my hand was shown specifically to let some guys who , like me, are struggling to find a starting point for the straight grip HH bow. Im sure all the other advanced shooters of these bows have there own technique. Great. Just wanted to help a brother find a starting point and then they go from there.

I get it, all the different grips and techniques, I just know from my own trial and error that a thread like this would have helped me when I first started out. My Hats off to Guys like Sunset Hill who even went the extra mile and made a video to help some brothers..

Nuff said , Im done.

(hope this doesnt sound angry as Im not at all)

Patrick

Rob DiStefano · May 29, 2011, 08:44:00 PM

don't see a twisted thing at all, patrick. sounds liker yer havin' fun and that's the point of all of this stuff.

Looper · May 29, 2011, 09:37:00 PM

Patrick, I understand where you're coming from. Rob, how about instead of criticizing folks, just put up some pics of how you do it and your results. I know you don't see it as criticism, but that's what it is. You just picked apart Patrick's grip. He didn't ask for any opinions on it. He was simply offering us a glimpse of how he does it and the results he gets. Now, if he had said "Hey, I'd like to tighten up my grouping at 30 yards. Here's a pic of my grip. Any suggestions?", then I think you'd have leeway to offer some potential changes for him to consider.

Now, back to the regular programming...

Patrick, how does that group you posted compare to one you shoot with one of your Toelkes?

Rob DiStefano · May 30, 2011, 05:51:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by looper:
... Rob, how about instead of criticizing folks, just put up some pics of how you do it and your results. I know you don't see it as criticism, but that's what it is. You just picked apart Patrick's grip. He didn't ask for any opinions on it. He was simply offering us a glimpse of how he does it and the results he gets. Now, if he had said "Hey, I'd like to tighten up my grouping at 30 yards. Here's a pic of my grip. Any suggestions?", then I think you'd have leeway to offer some potential changes for him to consider.

...

cheney,

i'm not criticizing anyone and specify that over and over. i'm offering alternatives to try. all those repeatedly espousing straight handles and grips could be said to be criticizing as well, but they aren't. they're just having a love-fest of their own.

as to pics of my grip and how i shoot all my stick bows, i've shown that a few pages back.

Looper · May 30, 2011, 06:19:00 AM

Okay, then. No harm, no foul, as they say.

Rob DiStefano · May 30, 2011, 06:37:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by looper:
Okay, then. No harm, no foul, as they say.

ah, a perfect way to begin page 200 of the continuing American Flat Longbow saga ...

Ben Maher · May 30, 2011, 07:38:00 AM

200 pages and I'm still checking in every day ... man ... I goota get a hobby ...
Umm...thats right I have one ....

We should maybe remember to post new Hill bows etc also maybe on PowWow ? I don't mean everything , nor to the exclusion of the as stated so nicely "lovefest " we have here but 200 pages is pretty intimidating to Hill style newbies and we gotta share the love ...
Maybe ...

WESTBROOK · May 30, 2011, 07:43:00 AM

Patrick, lookin' good Buddy! that is a purty good 30 yd group. Looks like things are coming together nicely for ya!

Eric

MT Longbow · May 30, 2011, 11:05:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by looper:
Patrick, I understand where you're coming from. Rob, how about instead of criticizing folks, just put up some pics of how you do it and your results. I know you don't see it as criticism, but that's what it is. You just picked apart Patrick's grip. He didn't ask for any opinions on it. He was simply offering us a glimpse of how he does it and the results he gets. Now, if he had said "Hey, I'd like to tighten up my grouping at 30 yards. Here's a pic of my grip. Any suggestions?", then I think you'd have leeway to offer some potential changes for him to consider.

Now, back to the regular programming...

Patrick, how does that group you posted compare to one you shoot with one of your Toelkes?

LOL ! UNFORTUNATELY NOT as good! !LOL

But thats why I keep grabbing my HH when I go shoot....because it still has control over me!!

Happy Memorial Day to all the VETS and current Service members...May we ALWAYS REMEMBER YOUR (and families) SACRIFICES !!

And for the FALLEN...MAY WE ALWAYS REMEMBER.

Patrick

Rik · May 30, 2011, 11:50:00 AM

I know most of you use the swing-draw technique when you shoot. I am in the minority of Hill shooters, because I aim before I ever draw the bow.

I learned that I had to do that on elk to keep from spooking them at point-blank range when I draw my bow, and I just stuck with that style of shooting for everything else. It's worked pretty well for me, but it's certainly not for everyone.

For those of you who are curious, the picture below shows what I see before I ever draw my bow. All the aiming is done before I draw.

I slowly ooze the bow into place. Then I pre-aim, which takes less than a second. After that, I simply wait until the time is right to take the shot (for the animal to turn more broadside or look away or something like that).

When the time is right. I draw straight back and shoot, which takes about two seconds. Sometimes on elk I have to hold for 10 seconds or more. I practice holding at full draw all summer long.

I don't think about the aiming because that part has already been done before I drew the string. I simply concentrate on maintaining back tension until the arrow has struck.

Then, and only then, do I stop squeezing my shoulder blades together. I have seen myself on video shoot animals and freeze at full draw for 15 yo 20 seconds after the shot. People think I do that for follow-through, but I am simply freezing in place so the animal doesn't see any movement to be afraid of. I don't move a muscle from the second the arrow launches until the animal is either out of sight or tips over.

For you guys who swing draw, do you get just about the same sight picture shown below when you are about half way drawn, or do you only get the arrow fully on target at full draw?

Rob DiStefano · May 30, 2011, 12:17:00 PM

i like yer style and pic, rik. :D

ChrisM · May 30, 2011, 12:52:00 PM

This grip talk is really helping. I just think my arrows ain't quite right. just need to keep playing with em.

Ray_G · May 30, 2011, 02:43:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Rik:
I know most of you use the swing-draw technique when you shoot. I am in the minority of Hill shooters, because I aim before I ever draw the bow.

I learned that I had to do that on elk to keep from spooking them at point-blank range when I draw my bow, and I just stuck with that style of shooting for everything else. It's worked pretty well for me, but it's certainly not for everyone.

Rik and all,

Being a newb of a few years with the bow but not hunting, I can see where there is an advantage to both styles of getting to the shot. Nate responded to one of the guys some pages back about getting the bow clear of obstructions and then make the draw. What Rik does is the same thing and it works for him, well, as evidenced by the critters on the ground.

On the other hand, while moving through our hunting territory, if we jump up a deer, rabbit or bird and we have to instinctively make the shot, I can see the merit of the swing draw. I almost stepped on a bedded moose in a dense yew stand during a wet snow fall, as I stepped over a log. The ground was very quiet and visibility was poor. Had I been hunting moose and wanted the shot, an instinctive swing would have been all it would have taken.

In my practice, I primarily swing draw but have worked a little with the bow arm out and arrow on target. I think we should be ready for any situation. Nate had me shooting at a rolled soccer ball a few weeks ago. Good practice on moving targets with the swing. Now, let's go hunting!

May 30, 2011, 04:01:00 PM

I take practice shots by half spreading, that is push half of the draw and pull half of the draw. I also practice anchoring first and pushing all of the draw from odd positions. It can come in handy to be able to draw anyway that one needs to for the situation. although i find the the standard 6 to 8 inches of straight back the most useable for most situations.

Ben Maher · May 30, 2011, 04:43:00 PM

Rik must really need to get out and get hunting if he has been reduced to hunting cows .....
hehe

May 30, 2011, 05:15:00 PM

I know from past experience that a 52 pound reverse handled Tembo with a cedar tipped with Hill broadhead is a good cow set up.

xbmedic · May 30, 2011, 05:17:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Ben Maher:
Rik must really need to get out and get hunting if he has been reduced to hunting cows .....
hehe

Are you kidding, Ben? Cows are delicious!

Just did some broadhead tuning this morning with my self built Hill style. This bow is 64" 52#@28" sleeved takedown. The limb lams are bamboo and the riser is milo, a Hawaiian wood used for building canoes. Black glass on the back and clear on the belly. Arrows are Gamegetter 2016s with 225gr field points on the orange nocked arrows, 125gr Zwickey Eskimos on 100gr adapters on the white nocked arrows. The shots were at 20 yds.

The upper limb says "Mauna Kea," where I live, and the lower limb says "Pu'u Holoholo," which means "Traveling Hill" in Hawaiian.

I will begin shaping the bow with the Koa riser when I'm not on call starting on Tuesday. Pics will follow.

May 30, 2011, 06:50:00 PM

Al,
Dandy bow and a stellar group to boot!

I can't wait to see your Koa riser glowing in the sunshine...

****************

The rest of you guys....lately this thread has gelled to a great easy going informative/helpful chat around the campfire.

I really appreciate it!!

Mudd · May 30, 2011, 06:52:00 PM

I am super impressed with your groups. Al.

Nice looking bow too.

I do have one question, is there another way to do the ends of the handle area near the fades?

I mean can it be feathered?

You've done a much better job than I could ever dream of doing.

God bless,Mudd