I posted this in the HH Hand Shock thread, but I wanted to ask all you Hill fanatics if you have had similar experiences. It seems that lowering the brace height of my Shelton to less than 6" (I'm just under 5.75" now) has pretty much eliminated any signs of hand shock. It didn't have much before; now there is zilch. I had it at 7" because that's where she braced with the string that came with it. I'm using a 10 strand D97 string padded to 18 strands in the loops. It came with a padded D97 string that looked to be 12 or 14 strands. I may put it back on and try unwinding it down to where I am now.

Is this common knowledge, just my bow, or did I just stumble onto something here?

Oh, and Nate, please add me to your DVD list. Thanks!

Question for the mods.  Did someone resize my photos on the Miller "Expedition" post?  I don't care, but I'm not sure why they were too big.  I resized (<640wide) them in photobucket prior to adding them to the post.  If I'm doing something wrong let me know.  I don't want anyone to think I haven't read the rules.  

Thanks.  Computers will always throw you a curveball.

Nate put me down for one also!

QuoteOriginally posted by 30coupe:
Is this common knowledge, just my bow, or did I just stumble onto something here?

Not sure as you don't see folks diving down below 6" all that often.  I have this thing for Pete George "Timberline" longbows.  I think his style was very nicely executed and the bows shoot beautifully.  Before I bought my first "Timberline" I was doing a lot of research.  In that research I found that those who shoot Pete George and David Miller bows often go well below 6", even lower than 5.5" on some.  I'm sure that most shooters start at 6" and stay or go up from there.  

All of my longbows sport brace heights set at 5.75 and lower.  I even shoot my Ekin Hill "Sirocco" at 5.25".  Quiet as can be, no thump and killer accurate.

Note that all of my bows are probably drawing in the 45-55# range.  I consider these somewhat "light" bows.  I have a 25" draw (Hill-style) and really like the low brace for a little added string time for the arrow.  With lighter weights I think it's more critical to tune up the performance.  And that doesn't mean speed.  Cast and accuracy trump that with me every time.

Also I'm shooting B-50 or some variation of Dacron on all of my bows.  I tried the skinny D-97 thing on my fast flight approved Hill-style bows and I DID NOT LIKE IT.  It undoubtedly upped performance, but the tradeoff was physical discomfort.  I was using 8-strands and found that I didn't really notice "handshock" in the hand, but rather as severe muscle/joint pain in the forearms and elbow of the bowhand.  And yes I was shooting with those low brace heights.  That may have contributed to it.  I'm sure my "relaxed Hill grip" may have been a culprit as well.  I like my grip and brace height the way they are, so I switched to B-50 and all my arm pain is gone.  Also, some of my bows are not fast flight ready, so I find it easier to deal just with B-50, so I can have a bunch of 64" and 66" strings ready to go.  

Now, I know someone out there will hit me for saying "tune up the performance" in one sentence and "I'm shooting B-50" in another paradox.  Fire away if you will.  I shoot carbons from Hill bows, too.  More kindling for my pyre  

Anyway 30coupe, I think you stumbled onto something that works for you, just like I did.  Like we've all been reading lately, this "Hill Thing" isn't carved in stone.  It wouldn't exist at all if Howard didn't experiment.  I think Howard would be proud to see his legacy and the following it still holds.  It's on us to push this simple yet effective tool, the American Semi-Longbow, into the future.  Keep experimenting guys and gals.  That's the fun part.

I took my first animal with my HH 'Robin Hood' today.  I'm loving this bow.
 
 
 

Paul

QuoteOriginally posted by mikebiz:
Also I'm shooting B-50 or some variation of Dacron on all of my bows.  I tried the skinny D-97 thing on my fast flight approved Hill-style bows and I DID NOT LIKE IT.  It undoubtedly upped performance, but the tradeoff was physical discomfort.  I was using 8-strands and found that I didn't really notice "handshock" in the hand, but rather as severe muscle/joint pain in the forearms and elbow of the bowhand.  And yes I was shooting with those low brace heights.  That may have contributed to it. [/QB]

Okay, now I have to go twist up a B50 string and try that! How many strands do you use, Mike?

My Shelton is marked 54# at 28" but according to Jason Kendall's digital scale it comes out 49#. I get between 52 and 53# on my spring scale, so it is somewhere in the range of 45-50# at my 27" Hill style draw. I lose right at one inch shooting low wrist with a straight grip bow. Not that it makes a nickel's worth of difference to whatever I might shoot.

I was just out shooting in the yard at milk jugs (one 1 gallon and one 1/2 gallon) at 30 to 45 yards. I won't be shooting at game at those distances any time soon, but I did manage to bounce the jugs around several times. Shooting at 45 yards kind of makes 30 look like a slam dunk after a while. I think the added string time does make the arrows carry a bit farther with less of an arc than before.

I didn't make any of the strings that are on my bows currently.  I believe that they are all 14-15 strand.  Actually I gotta learn how to make a string first.  Never done it.  

I would try the B-50 just for comparison sake.  Nice little experiment.

Nice squirrel, Paul.  I want to go out for them later this winter.  I've never hunted nor eaten squirrel.  One of the few things on feet or fin I haven't eaten around here.  

How did you go about making your small game heads? They look deadly.  Really nice.

QuoteOriginally posted by mikebiz:
Question for the mods.  Did someone resize my photos on the Miller "Expedition" post?  I don't care, but I'm not sure why they were too big.  I resized (<640wide) them in photobucket prior to adding them to the post.  If I'm doing something wrong let me know.  I don't want anyone to think I haven't read the rules.  

Thanks.  Computers will always throw you a curveball.

I figured it out.  I resized one in photobucket to add to another thread and the change carried over because of the link.  I hate computers.

QuoteOriginally posted by mikebiz:
I didn't make any of the strings that are on my bows currently.  I believe that they are all 14-15 strand.  Actually I gotta learn how to make a string first.  Never done it.  

I would try the B-50 just for comparison sake.  Nice little experiment.

Thanks, Mike! I'll give it a try. String making it pretty easy and B50 is way cheap, so your experiments that fail aren't such a big deal. Believe me, I know about the failed ones.    :mad:

Nate you are the GURU of Hill style and you must continue posting and advising, one day maybe I will own a bow from you but I must own your DVD soon; Mikebiz your bow is simply wonderful, please inform us about the photobucket link for more pics of your masterpiece.
Marco.

Nice shootin Paul! Like the point too.

Congrats Hawkin!! Nice pic. First kill, I remember the first woodchuck I shotLOL That thing got drug all over the neighborhood across the handlebars of my Roadmaster bike:)

Sorry Paul, I just realized you have taken game with other longbows, that this squirrell was the first for this particular bow. Hope you didnt take it the wrong way. Nice bow by the way.

Thanks John...I love the bamboo and yew combination of the 'Robin Hood' special edition.  I also love the fact that it has mammoth ivory tip overlays because I have mammoth ivory grips on my Colt 1911.

Mike, I just took a regular 190 gr. field point to my little Dremmel belt sander to grind an angle on two sides until they came to a point.  Then I took a diamond hone to it to give it a double bevel edge.  It sounds like a lot of work, but it only took a few minutes.

Paul-

Congrats on the squirrel.

I have a funny story about shooting squirrels.

About 10 years ago I was out bow hunting deer  on some public land. That particular day the squirrels were everywhere. They were running, jumping and chasing each other like they were children on the playground at recess. Well, after about 6 or 7 hours of hunting and not seeing any deer, I thought that I would give one of those squirrels a whack with an arrow. I sighted in on one that was running up the tree near me, I brought me Hill bow up with a wood arrow, drew back and released hitting the squirrel dead center. That squirrel dropped and next a great big owl came down and swopped up my squirrel with my arrow stuck in his body. The owl flew away to a near by tree. It was actually pretty cool to watch this owl fly down and grab his pry but I wanted my arrow. So I walked over to tree that the owl was perched on, the owl dropped the squirrel and I removed my arrow. I looked up at the squirrel and backed up. The owl cam down picked up the squirrel and flow off with it's dinner.

Darren

That's a great story Darren.  Only a bowhunter can have an experience like that.

Mike,

  I'm so glad you like your Expedition. I am like you and have quite a few different longbows and that Expedition is the best shooting longbow that I've ever owned. I can't wait until I get my new one. I can't make up my mind whether to get the Expedition or the Hawk model but either way it will be one of the CC/CV bows of Millers. I'm hooked on his bows.

   On a different note, I have a good friend that lives in Florida that is hunting on his own in Arizona for Coues deer with his longbow and he just shot a  Coues buck that was scored at 123". That's only 7" off of the current record and he did it with a longbow with a perfect shot at 30 yards. It doesn't get much better than that.

If you find out more details on your buds Coues deer let us know.  Love to see those photos with longbow in hand...

Hey Bill.  Yes I'm loving it.  If I were you I would get the Expedition again.  You already know how that model performs.  And once Howard Hill used fiberglass the rest is history.  I think glass is a critical component of a high performance Semi-Long like the CC/CV.  Just my thoughts though.  

And we need some Coues shots.  A 123" buck is a huge Coues.  Love those little whitetails.  Apparently hunting them is the "poor man's sheep hunt" because of the rugged terrain.  The habitat they live in is awesome for sure.