Nate, tonight I started cold with the swing. I was only at twelve steps, but I absolutely drilled that bale. I only allowed myself 10 shots, then went back to form work. Its good to see that when shooting for accuracy, cold, I was on the money. Your advice and explanation on a few things was spot on!

Hey Nate,

As far as I'm concerned keep the education coming.  I don't find your comments and advice egotistical in the least.  You have much more experience researching, building and shooting the Hill Semi-Long than most of us out here.  I always look forward to your posts as they are chock full of great Hill info.  Thanks for the lessons.

It's good to hear that you guys trying the swing draw are finding success....because it works!  Especially Rik...

it's hard to explain in written form what you could show someone in 5 minutes in person, but that's what I try to do.

Hey Nate i went to look at one of your videos on Utube and it was gone.  Do you have it available anyplace else?

Nate i came across yours videos in this thread.Still 150 pages to read.Great to spent my time on. I like to see them also. Can or will you  replace them?

Mark

Well, as promised here is a review and photo essay of my new to me David Miller concave/convex  (CC/CV) "Expedition" longbow.    I am certainly no expert, but I have owned and handled a bunch of Hill-style, Semi-Longbows over the past year so I feel that I can make a good comparison to other bows I've owned/shot.  Those include several Ekin Hills and several Pete George Timberline longbows.  I also own a Miller "Old Tom", so I can compare the "Exped" to David's other work.  If any of my information is incorrect or seems out of whack please let me know.  This is a learning experience for me as well.   Also I have yet to speak to David personally about the CC/CV process, so what I know is just from what I've read and observed on the bow itself.  I need to make that call.  

First I'll get the technical data out of the way:
David Miller "Expedition"
67" overall, 66.5" ntn
54#@26" (approx 50-52# at my 25" drawlength)
Approx. 0.5" of limb backset
Tillered for 3-under (I shoot 3-under)
Brace height set at 5 5/8"
Three laminations of bamboo
Gloss black glass back (woven) and belly (linear)
Oregon Myrtle riser
Gray split cowhide handle wrap, shelf and strike plate
B-50 string

Here's the mark of a true master of the American Semi-Long.  In my opinion David is at the top of his form and may be the best Hill-style bowyer out there.  Keep in mind that no other bowyer is producing longbows in the CC/CV style.  They are time consuming and expensive to build.  This is why Howard Hill himself abandoned the CC/CV style for "production" bows.  David's work is impeccable.  Note the use of standard linear glass on the belly of the bow.  
 

I like to set my longbows up with relatively low brace heights ranging from 5.25" to around 6" max.  Since i shoot lighter weight bows I like the arrow to have as much string time as possible to increase the power stroke.  As long as the bow can handle the low BH and remains quiet, I feel the extra string time gives me a little better performance.  As I stated before this one is set to 5 5/8" BH.  Beautiful lines as all Hill Semi-longs show.  
 

In this photo as we go up and over the limb you can clearly see a bamboo node under the glass about two-thirds of the way up from the tip.  In the CC/CV process the bamboo is not ground flat as it is in traditional Semi-Longs.  The back of the laminations are left radiused, with the fibrous center of the bamboo belly removed.  This creates a lighter, stiffer limb.  And they are stiff providing a lot of power, speed and flat cast.  Because of the radiused back, it is necessary to use vintage woven glass to conform with the curves of the bamboo.  Standard linear glass is used on the belly as that lamination is flat.
 

The riser is made of Oregon Myrtle, which has a long history as a riser material on Hill bows.  The grain is superb and the finish is glossy and slick.   Fit and finish are absolutely perfect.  Now this is a used bow with some dings and such, but I can only imagine how absolutely perfect it was straight out of the tube.

This is a straight gripped version, my first.  My Pete George and Miller "Old Tom" have slightly dished grips and my Ekin Hill has a locator grip.  I don't feel much difference in the dished vs. straight as far as feel and ease of repeatable bow hand placement.  

The handle is a very narrow teardrop being 4 1/4" tall X 2 1/8" deep and approximately 1" across at it's widest point.  It fits my hand perfectly, which is not large.  I wear a medium size glove.  
 

The handle is wrapped/glued with gray split cowhide.  This angle makes the rear of the grip look concave.  I assure you it is perfectly straight.  That bulbous look is an artifact of the camera angle.    
 

You can see from this photo how narrow the teardrop handle is.  I love this style as I shoot with a rather relaxed grip.  I find that a deep, narrow grip reduces the tendency for gripping hard and torquing the bow.  My bows with rounder, shallower grips allow the hand to wrap around much tighter if I'm not paying attention to staying relaxed.  As I draw the bow I allow the tension to pull the heel of the grip into the "lifeline" on my hand and I lightly grip around the front with my fingers.  I find this works for me.
 

Below is a closeup of the laminations.  You can see the bamboo nodes here if you look closely.  The riser section is 11 1/8" at the fadeouts.  This is where the bow gets interesting.  Now this is a three lam bow, but in reality my bow is   primarily  TWO lams.  The belly lam of bamboo is only approximately 15.5" long.  This lamination fades out beautifully into the middle lamination just as the riser fades into the belly lam.   I haven't seen this before on other bows.  A typical 3 lam bow will have all 3 laminations running the entire length of the limb from riser to tip.  

I assume this "short lam" has a lot to do with the way this style of bow is tillered, as I believe much of the tillering is completed during the limb layup process.  I know that when this bow was for sale the owner was told by David that it should not be shot by someone with a drawlength exceeding 27".  Draws and shoots like a dream at my 25" draw.    

   
Here's another shot of the gorgeous Oregon Myrtle riser resting in the pine needles of my front yard.  Pretty sweet, ain't it?    

But looks aren't everything.  "How does it shoot?" you may be asking.  Well it shoots as good if not better than it looks.  The draw is super smooth out to my 25" DL, as I expected it to be.  The limbs are stiff and the backset certainly adds to that a bit.  With a "good" release there is absolutely no thump in the hand.  And when I have a poor release the bow is very forgiving, though a little bump is noticed.  My personal opinion is that in many cases "handshock" is more an artifact of poor shooting form/release than actual bow construction.  

The bow is damn near silent.  The previous owner had installed 2 Sims Everlast String Leech vibration dampeners on the string.  I'm not sure if they are having any impact on sound as I haven't tried a bare string yet.  I can't imagine that these little rubber crosses hinder performance much, so I may keep them on. The other day I shot in very quiet early morning conditions and the only sound was the arrow whacking the bales with authority downrange.  

Improved cast is obvious as compared to my other bows in this weight range.  I have certainly noticed a decrease in arrow drop at longer shooting distances.  I'm shooting both 490 and 515 grain carbon arrows, cut at 26.5" from this bow.  They are showing just a tad stiff, but move downrange with speed, power and accuracy.  I think moving up to 200gn points should put them right on the mark.  With my short draw they are like crossbow bolts flying around the yard.

       

Well to say that I am very impressed with the "Expedition" is an understatement.  As I stated before David is putting out a bow that I don't think anyone can touch right now.  It's everything Howard wanted a bow to be and then some.  With perfect geometry and tillering, A++ fit and finish and killer performance this is truly, as David says, "the ultimate big game longbow."  

I'm feel very privileged to own this bow.  I knew I had to jump on it the minute I saw the for sale ad.  Thank you to Bill (deathwind) for selling me the bow and getting it to me quickly and perfectly packaged.  He's going lefty and already has another "Expedition" on order.  He was that impressed with this bow and in talking to him he can't wait to get the next one.  I intend to order another, custom to my specs and design sometime this year.  This used bow was the perfect way to get an "Expedition" quick and for much less than you would pay new.  I'm going out to shoot it right now.  And thank you Mr. Miller for building such a wonderful longbow.  

If anyone has any questions or comments please feel free to PM me or ask them here.  Like I said I'm no expert and don't proclaim to be.  I'm just a guy who loves the Semi-Longbow and I'm trying to learn as much as I possibly can to improve my shooting and understanding of this longbow style.

 

Here's another gratuitous shot of the Miller "Expedition" with a great book and a great quiver.

Oh and if you are wondering where I got that sweet camo, felted wool vest it's a secret.  Actually my wonderful girlfriend Kristen made that for me for my birthday.  It's made from all natural, un-dyed sheep and alpaca wool.  The dark gray is silver alpaca, the brown is brown alpaca and the white is standard sheep wool.  

It's six layers of felted wool with a poly lining, two outside pockets and one inside pocket.  Kristen is not a seamstress, but as you can see when she puts her mind to something, great things happen.  This was her first attempt at making felted wool and a vest and it turned out fantastic.  It's warm and light and fits me perfectly.  I don't know how she fitted it without me trying it on.  She's a keeper for sure.

Mike...

all I can say is "how cool is this?....Way!!... I'm saying...."... and that goes for both of your last posts.

The wait for a special bow to be built can be excruciating...early on it's kind of like watching cows grow, then later it's the "old watched pot".

I do think my wait for the "Expedition" will be made a lot easier once I get my Sunset Hill in my hands.

Until then I'll have to be sated with shooting my HH Cheetah "Keeper Kat", Miller "Old Tom" and the "Red Dragon" by Dave Johnson.

Thanks for sharing Mike and I do think you are correct in that your lady is a "keeper"!

God bless,Mudd

I deleted the utube videos because they weren't the quality I thought they should be, and I have plans to make a short dvd this spring that tells about the style in equipment and shooting.  Hopefully I will get it out when the weather gets going better.

Thanks Roy.  It is "way cool".  I'm sure you'll find plenty of bows to shoot while waiting for David to finish your "Expedition".  I've said this before.  The wait will be WELL worth it.  I haven't shot a Sunset Hill yet, but I hope to soon.  And if you think your "Old Tom" is amazing, wait 'til the "Exped" gets in your hands.  

I just shot a few rounds.  I'm shooting a bunch of thrashed up target arrows.  All the fletching is shot, some are missing chunks of feather.  Even my custom 3 fletch arrows with entire feathers missing are on the mark.  This bow is all I stated above.  Quick, quiet, flat-shooting and deadly accurate.  And I'm not the best shot by any means, though I improve everyday.  I have been having a lot of fun shooting at a swinging, 16oz Gatorade bottle.  Getting the timing down is a real challenge.  

And yes, Kristen is the best.  I'm very lucky to have her.  She's loving her new Dick Wightman "OPA" longbow as well.  We have a lot of fun shooting in our future.

@mikebiz      

@sunset hill: I'm in for a copy of your dvd!

Yea Nate are ya takin pre orders

Mikebiz, thanks for the review. Now I really can't wait to get it. Nate, I'm in for one also.

no ordering yet guys....I'll let ya'll know when it's available and there will be some TG ads for it so it's done right proper like....

Nate i want one. That is number two.

QuoteOriginally posted by Legendstick53:
Nate i want one. That is number two.

Looks like I'm third in line.  Good luck with the project, Nate.

Nate, I think as a future owner of a Sunset Hill, I could put one to good use myself and share it with others.

God bless,Mudd