I am shooting a RH BigJim Thunderchild which is marked 44# @ 28" (and my draw is 28"). I have recently switched over to Trad but when I hunted with a compound I really made a point to have a high FOC and heavy arrow. I like the way they fly, tune, sound, and kill.

With that said, I have been shooting some 30" GT Trad arrows in .500 spine and experimented with tip weight from 100gr to 200gr and still have a tail left issue (makes believe I am underspined).

SO... I am looking at purchasing some 400's cut to 29" and wanting to add quite a bit of weight up front. Ideally I'd throw a 200gr head on with at least a 20gr insert. If I do this will I need a stiffer spine? Possibly a 340? Also, I am VERY open to arrow recommendations! I'd like to for sure be over 500gr at a bare minimum, and I mean BARE minimum (i'd love to be in the 600's) Thank you for taking the time to read this... I know it's a topic that never ends.

You could cut some off, you have almost 2" to play with.

Another thought you might be getting a false reading. Your arrow could be over spined and hitting the riser on the way by.

You shouldn't have a nock left issue with .500 spine arrows and a 100 grain point out of a 44# bow drawn to 28". You said tail left, not nock left, which makes me wonder if you are describing a fletched arrow and not a bare shaft.  If you are basing your conclusions on a fletched arrow, it may not necessarily indicate a weak shaft.  It could be feather deflection or something else.  

No doubt you will need stiffer than a .500 spine to get the FOC that you want, but I would like to make sure that your observations are giving you the information you need to know.

I don't think you are underspined. I've got some .400 spine cut to 29" out of a 54@28 and get real good flight.

I have a bow that might be a little more poundage than the one you are talking about and have some .500 spine arrows cut to 28" and have got a 250 grain up front to make them fly good.

I'm pretty sure you would not be able to get .340 spine to fly right.

I would think you are in the ball park with .500 spine arrow and you could probably make the .600 spine work.

QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
You shouldn't have a nock left issue with .500 spine arrows and a 100 grain point out of a 44# bow drawn to 28". You said tail left, not nock left, which makes me wonder if you are describing a fletched arrow and not a bare shaft.  If you are basing your conclusions on a fletched arrow, it may not necessarily indicate a weak shaft.  It could be feather deflection or something else.  

No doubt you will need stiffer than a .500 spine to get the FOC that you want, but I would like to make sure that your observations are giving you the information you need to know.

I am describing a fletched arrow.

I think that a 29-29.5 inch .500 spine gold tip with 100 grain insert and 125-145 grain point would be close.

Get a field point test kit from 3 rivers. They will let you run all the way up to 300gr and see what your bow likes best.
Some gold tip velocity shafts for low weight with lots of point weight.

I recommend you do your testing with a bare shaft.  Hopefully that will give you more accurate results.  Stand close (4-5 yards) from the target at first because a bare shaft will do some squirrelly things if it's not close to the correct spine.

QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
I recommend you do your testing with a bare shaft.  Hopefully that will give you more accurate results.  Stand close (4-5 yards) from the target at first because a bare shaft will do some squirrelly things if it's not close to the correct spine.

It's funny... I was robotic doing this with my compound and it was a very important part of my tuning process. I start shooting trad and for some reason I just completely forget about doing it. Thank you for reminding me, I'll do that tomorrow and report back with my results.

You are over spined!!! Nock left can and will happen when the shaft tries to go to the right to show stiff but hits the riser and kicks out to the Left...common problem. This will also happen if your nock point is too low or if you are shooting three under and not utilizing a nock point under your arrow as well as above.

44lb bow could possibly get by with a 500 spine arrow but would most likely require a full lenghth (32") arrow and 145g or more pt weight. I would try using a 600 spine and 145g.
That should be a lot closer.

Bare shaft, bare shaft, bare shaft! Start at about 8-10 yards and get your nock point set first. Start high...like over 3/4" or even more if you are three under. Work it down. Don't expect to get a perfectly level arrow as it likely won't ever happen. Once you find the sweet spot for your nock, move it up a 1/16" or even an 1/8" just because it's better to have it a tad high than for it to be even a smidge low.

Now you can check for spine. Start with full length shafts if you can. Don't put too much bearing on changing point weight. This will help, but has less effect than shaft length adjustments or certainly changing arrow spines.

If you end up with a spine that is very unlikely for your set up, you are likely experiencing some false readings....not even your mother thinks your that special.

BigJim...oh yeah, good luck and give us a ring or email if you need any help

By the way, we sell test kits and individual shafts also and point tes kits.....


bigjim

The first thing I'd try is cutting one of those (bare shaft) about 1/4" at a time.  My guess is you'll see some dramatic improvement when you get between 28-29".  If you're still >28" you may be able to cut a bit more and add point weight down to 28". Personally, I'd stop at the first point...your FOC will be plenty. If you could even get .400's to work(and that's a big if),I'd guess you'd be looking at full length and >300 gr. up front...the trajectory's going to look like a rainbow!  The upside if you gap it may give you a near point on at normal hunting ranges depnding on release/anchor,(I shoot similar hunting arrows)but range estimation will be unforgiving at 3D's.

If I were you, I'd take Big Jim's advice - and offer- and run with it.

I only shot carbons for a year or so, but for me, shooting a nearly identical set up, the .500's were stiff. Those false readings can be
a real nuisance.

QuoteOriginally posted by BigJim:
You are over spined!!! Nock left can and will happen when the shaft tries to go to the right to show stiff but hits the riser and kicks out to the Left...common problem. This will also happen if your nock point is too low or if you are shooting three under and not utilizing a nock point under your arrow as well as above.

44lb bow could possibly get by with a 500 spine arrow but would most likely require a full lenghth (32") arrow and 145g or more pt weight. I would try using a 600 spine and 145g.
That should be a lot closer.

Bare shaft, bare shaft, bare shaft! Start at about 8-10 yards and get your nock point set first. Start high...like over 3/4" or even more if you are three under. Work it down. Don't expect to get a perfectly level arrow as it likely won't ever happen. Once you find the sweet spot for your nock, move it up a 1/16" or even an 1/8" just because it's better to have it a tad high than for it to be even a smidge low.

Now you can check for spine. Start with full length shafts if you can. Don't put too much bearing on changing point weight. This will help, but has less effect than shaft length adjustments or certainly changing arrow spines.

If you end up with a spine that is very unlikely for your set up, you are likely experiencing some false readings....not even your mother thinks your that special.

BigJim...oh yeah, good luck and give us a ring or email if you need any help

Thank you Jim, I really appreciate the advice! You know how much I enjoy this bow from my email.

Ttt

I shoot 600 gt trads 29inches with 50gr inserts and 145 gr heads out of my 45# bows

Thanks stonewall. I ordered some test tips/arrows/footings/inserts and some .600 GT Trads. We'll see where this all leads me!

I have read multiple times where people talk about these, "false readings", and I do think they are logical.  If you are getting a false reading, wouldn't the problem continue even if you shortened the arrow?

Daniel, in this case, yes... Tx's arrows are likely too stiff, but bouncing off the riser to look like they're too soft. So if he shortens (stiffens) those .500's, he'll still have the problem - only worse!
I think the .600's will solve the problem, we'll have to wait and see.

I have often wondered if I am over spined because they are always stiffer than what others recommend, but they always straighten out by trimming a little off the shaft.