QuoteOriginally posted by Legolas:
So Art-what is your technique?

Mentally note the range
Eyes focused on the target
Swing draw with my anchor to the corner of my mouth
Release

Sound too simple but after years of practice, it works for me.

Hi Guys I'm new to traditional archery and this is what I was trying to figure out. Except my distances are less since I'm a beginner. I normally gap shoot it's what I want to be, BUT there was times I would draw and shoot. At close range it wasn't bad. Farther distances it was really squirrely. Maybe I cant be a slave to 2 masters. So, I think I'll concentrate on the gap shooting and formulating my own "dope" based on my setup. What about the switching from 3 under to 2 under? Or is that string walking?

Oh my those Jimmy Blackmom videoes were very helpful!
And he defines how  a fast arrow setup will be different than a slow arrow (as in a big grains per inch).
I am now going to plot my gaps and check out my set up.

Thank you ksdan.

Over thinking really puts the screws to my shot over 30 yards. I practice 40 and over just to practice. I guess I feel more comfortable at 20 being my range but am getting more confident and would like 25 to be my max for hunting. Good luck.

I use "point of aim". Millions of teachers and student archers are being taught this as well so they can shoot without sights.

I also string walk.  If you've used sights for a long time (me from 1981-2010) Ignoring the point of the arrow in a high pressure situation (hunting shot) is very difficult to prevent and results in high shots. Walking accommodates the shooter's experience instead of fighting it.

After reading McDave's post I finally admitted to myself that I gap shoot. Or split vision, whichever you prefer. Been doing this forever. I concentrate on a spot but I know the arrow is in my peripheral vision. As long as I hit what I look at, who cares what it's called.

Agree 100% with Butch!

I shot a compound with sights from about 1975 - 2002 then went back to instinctive shooting stick bows exclusively. when i shot a sight, I used the sight more as a reference than an exact aiming point - sort of "there, that looks about right".  I do similar in shooting instinctive.

I think everyone, at least subconsciously, uses a form of gap shooting, your mind is aware of where your bow hand, arrow tip, or whatever are pointing. I practice to learn my point on distance (34 yards) and am vaguely aware of distance and arrow point as I draw and shoot - shots under 34 yards require the arrow to appear below the desired point of impact, longer shots require the arrow point appear above the desired point of impact.

Beyond about 50 or 60 yards it's all instinctive because I can't judge the distance that accurately and just pull back and let it go when it feels right.   Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't!

I think most people would be surprised at their long range accuracy if they didn't think so much about it and just went out and launched lots of arrows at stumps and distance targets.

Something you may be interested in.   It breaks things down into its simpiliest forms.

https://weshood.wordpress.com/book-dvd/

Try this.  Go out and shoot at your target in the dark.  (The darker the better)  Stick or hang a "light stick" in front of your target and back up to 15-20 yards and shoot.  You will find out for sure if you gap or shoot instinctive.  I do this to work on my form and concentration.  As a matter of fact, I shoot better this way! (Maybe I need to go hunting wearing really dark glasses!)  

I just practice a lot. Once I'm over about forty yards I guess I transition from instinctive to instinctive gap. You do it enough times and you can get pretty good at the holdover amounts. Just takes a lot of practice!

QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:

QuoteOriginally posted by Legolas:
[qb]
Howard Hill used a form of gap shooting that he called "split vision," which was gap shooting without the calculation. He placed the arrow point on a spot that felt right to him without worrying about calculating anything, while always focusing on the target.  So, there is somewhat of a crossover between gap and instinctive in his method.   [/b]

This quote sums up how I'm now trying to shoot.  I shot for many years, calling my self instinctive only and was never aware of the arrow unless I was near point on.  Most of the time I'm still not aware of the arrow when shooting BUT the past couple of years I've tried slowing down my shot by a mili-second, and when I do I am aware of the out of focus arrow in my secondary vision.

It has always been there and is there for everyone, it's just learning how to see it if you want to.  And now I know why Howard Hill said something to the affect of, "not having an excuse for missing the 2nd arrow".  

Split Vision is a type of Gap shooting (feel good gaps)  that I believe our mind uses to calculate the shot. If I choose to pause a 1/10th  of a second (or more) and see the out of focus arrow (and string blur) it will allow a person to become a better archer as it allows for greater consistency.  

It is a tool to for self correction when evaluating the shot.  

For shooting point on, being aware of Split Vision will give you an immense amount of information about your shot, alignment, etc.

Your mind is seeing the arrow and using the arrow for reference whether we are aware of it so making the decision to "be aware" of the arrow is very helpful.  Bryon Ferguson also talks about this in his book, Become The Arrow.

QuoteOriginally posted by skitterwalker:
Hi Guys I'm new to traditional archery and this is what I was trying to figure out. Except my distances are less since I'm a beginner. I normally gap shoot it's what I want to be, BUT there was times I would draw and shoot. At close range it wasn't bad. Farther distances it was really squirrely. Maybe I cant be a slave to 2 masters. So, I think I'll concentrate on the gap shooting and formulating my own "dope" based on my setup. What about the switching from 3 under to 2 under? Or is that string walking?

By 2 under do you mean split (index finger above the arrow, middle and ring finger below) or do you mean just 2 under?  Shooting 2 or 3 fingers under (with none above) will probably give you the same results, as your anchor point is the same. But you may see differences based on if you get a better release.  String walking is all fingers under and leaving a  space between your finger and the nock that correlates to certain distance.

Level of difficulty goes up and accuracy potential goes down as distance increases. This is true no matter what siting method is used.  Flat arrow trajectory reduces the problem to a point, but even flat-shooting arrows remain flat to only relatively short distances...maybe 30 yards or so...before inviting error.  If shots are longer it's up to the archer to either 'sense' the correct sight picture and remember the necessary arrow arc from prior practice (instinctive shooter), or be skilled in estimating the yardage so the corresponding hold over can be set (gap shooter).  Either way, unless the distance is KNOWN it must be sensed or estimated... meaning at best a long shot is a guessing game with regard to accuracy.  Add in the need to execute the shot sequence with near perfection as shots get longer and it's not looking good for dependable results.  

I'll bet that most archers aren't particularly good at estimating distance accurately at ranges beyond the flat trajectory boundary, when adrenaline levels are high and particularly if the target itself can move at any time.

Maybe it's true.  Maybe archery really is a short range sport.