Thanks Ray, means a lot to me coming from a TG legend.

I think if I would have started this thread like this:

Found this deer dead today, I was trying to kill him this year.

It wouldn't have ruffled as many feathers.

Game management and antler management should be thought of as two different things because they are. Our government should in my opinion manage our wildlife for their numbers because it has been proven we the public can not control ourselves.

But I don't think management from our government  should ever cross the line into antler management. Antler management should be left to the hunter/land owner.

The best thing our state ever did was implement the one buck rule. Our buck herd did wonders at year two and three after that law went into affect.

"Thanks Ray, means a lot to me coming from a TG legend."

Yikes, T.J. the kind words are appreciated, but 'legends' are for the likes of Mr. Lamb and Mr. LaClair or the Wensel's.  I'm still wet behind the ears.     :D

No way brother, you take your two daughters with you to the woods and that makes you a TG legend in my book.

Two Legends in this photo standing on the far left, Ron LaClair and John Grumley (this is from the TBM article I did on Shrewhaven Lodge):

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Now if you're talking these two little ladies-they're incredible (straight A students in school, great athletic accomplishments and dandy archers to boot)-and they'd make any Dad feel legendary.  

Mary on mid-December 2013 hunt in the Double Bull blind on the home property:
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Morgan, late December 2013 hunt on grandparents fruit farm:
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The girls modeling their new quivers from Ron LaClair/Art Vincent and neck knives from G. Fred Asbell.

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Be it one buck rule or antler regulations, both have the goal of attempting to choke down excessive yearling buck harvests. If you liberalize buck regulations, you beget liberal buck harvests and vice versa.

The problem of deer hunters being "buck only" hunters started prior to the Great Depression and has still continued to this day for many. There are still hunters who refuse to shoot a doe.

The following is from John Ozoga, retired MDNR deer specialist who probably is the most respected whitetail researcher in the world...

John Ozoga: "For obvious reasons, few hunted deer populations today exhibit the detailed male social organization as I outline here. Instead, in most areas the annual harvest of bucks is so excessive that yearling bucks must prematurely assume herd sire roles and do most of the breeding. In the absence of mature, dominant bucks – – the social governors – – the rut becomes a chaotic scramble among young bucks to breed any doe, thus eliminating any selectivity for adaptive traits."

We've tried the voluntary restraint program for 4 generations. If one thinks of it, we used to have very lax driving and drunk driving laws in the past too. Those don't work well either. Not on crowded roads anyways. Nor do voluntary bag limits work well. They don't for fish or birds either. One landowner's harvest actions impact all around him.

In a sense, what one or two camps in any area do can have the same impact as one person smoking in a room or one kid peeing in the wading pool. One camp of 10 guys that shoot the very first whatever, be it buck or doe, will impact others.

One thing that always stands out is the number of sportsmen who still think the natural resources are there to serve them instead of them serving the natural resources. As JFK would say "ask not what the deer herd can do for you, ask what you can do for the deer herd". The era of viewing the natural resources/sport hunting and fishing as a consumer are mostly behind us. In the modern era, we'll have to be the stewards of the game we wish to hunt otherwise they will vanish, this time for good.

Well Tom, They gotta eat too I guess.

Your hard work and dedication show through your posts and success.  I always enjoy the big ole Does you kill every year  

Hard to imagine a place with a 1:1 ratio.  Would think to get it at that level the numbers would have to be very low.

tracker12, we shoot a lot of does. There are two tags on our initial license then after that the zone I am in we can get as many $15 bonus tags as we would like. Each bonus tag gives you two antlerless deer. We kill a lot of does each year. I shot 4 does this year and had other buddies in to take some more. I have a friend that has a farm that is overrun with deer and he kills around 25-30 does each year. I have killed a buck and quit a few does at his place and it is amazing. Every time you sit in a stand you will see deer and most times you will see 8-15.

Our numbers remain very high. In place of all those does taking up space there are young bucks.

Tom,
Are you doing trail camera census of your property? It seems that I've read (in something like Deer and Deer Hunting or the QDMA Magazine) that if you have trail camera's out on various trails of your property that you'll capture 95% (or thereabouts) of the home population of deer on the property over a 2-4 week period.
Just curious if you're doing something like that or just taking notes while you scout and hunt.

Ray

I do Ray, I am a "Modern Traditionalist"

    :D

Great thread TJ. If you don't mind me asking, When I see deer of the caliber you've posted and then spoke of 1 to 1 ratios I wonder how many acre's are you dealing with?

If you take out lesser bucks, you don't have a tag for the big one, but I like your thinking, Tom.

We had a wide 7x7 with short tines that I told Bro I was taking out if I got the chance. Had him at 20 yds one eve, but was dark enough I couldn't see much but the white of his rack. I passed ...

QuoteOriginally posted by SheltonCreeker:
Great thread TJ. If you don't mind me asking, When I see deer of the caliber you've posted and then spoke of 1 to 1 ratios I wonder how many acre's are you dealing with?

Sorry for the delay David. Didn't see this was back up. This deer was on 314 acres.

No problem at all Tom. Those are some bruisers you posted in trail cams. I appreciate what your trying to do. Good luck.