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is this bad steel?

Started by T Sunstone, January 09, 2014, 08:33:00 PM

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T Sunstone

I have shot 2 deer with steel force single bevel 300 grain broad heads and both had chewed up edges.  The first was in the ground so I thought gravel but the second hung in the deer and never went into the ground with the same results.  They were 2 different heads not one just resharpened.  The second one cut about 1/4" of a rib going in and split a rib coming out.  It was hard to get pictures that show the damage.  I don't remember this happening to other heads just from ribs.  
Sent them an email with pics but never heard back from them.  
 

 

Bear Heart

Could the angle be super shallow thus making the steel thin and prone to damage?  Just a guess. I am no expert.
Traditional Bowhunters of Washington
PBS Associate Member
Jairus & Amelia's Dad
"Memories before merchandise!"

Orion

Yep.  What Bear Heart said.  Either a very acute angle or steel not tempered properly, or both.

Keith Zimmerman

Sounds like they still did the job.  Did they resharpen OK?

bigbadjon

A broadhead is generally way softer than a knife so the edge isn't going to be as springy. It looks like it riffled rather than chipped so I think it not an issue. Hone it back sharp and use it again.
Hoyt Tiburon 55#@28 64in
A&H ACS CX 61#@28in 68in (rip 8/3/14)

Fastltz

My 225 grains did the exact same thing and mine went trough all flesh. I was a little worried at first as well but mine honed right back.
1 Peter 3:15 ...always be ready to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.

T Sunstone

The factory is a 25 degree bevel and I sharpening at 28 degrees using a KME.  If it gets that messed up just going through a rib, it could effect penetration.  Definitely not an acute angle and I don't ever remember this with other heads.  I had a different head on the arrow tonight.

Bear Heart

Traditional Bowhunters of Washington
PBS Associate Member
Jairus & Amelia's Dad
"Memories before merchandise!"

T Sunstone

It doesn't say on the package the hardness just says stainless knife grade steel.

Bud B.

The old Bear Razorheads are somewhat soft too, but if they could speak to the game they've taken... The hardest steel in any broadhead I've sharpened is Tusker.
TGMM Family of the Bow >>>>---------->

"You can learn more about deer hunting with a bow and arrow in a week, than a gun hunter might learn all his life." ----- Fred Bear

oldbohntr

My retirement business is sharpening and most of it is hair styling shears of fine Japanese steel.  These edges are called convex...doesn't need to be explained here, but it amounts to a low angle(40-55 degrees).  These edges are fragile and will not hold up on soft or cheap steel. And, that's when they're typically cutting only washed human hair!  Look at the toughness of the edges of an ax or meat cleaver -those aren't especially hard, and they hold up under abuse.  Broadheads typically shouldn't be real hard either. You have to balance toughness against becoming too brittle.  I am a single bevel broadhead advocate, but I accept that these edges are a bit fragile.  I don't know for sure what the Rockwell hardness should be, or even that it's the whole story.  Some qualities of a particular scissor alloy will make it work better than one that's simply harder.  

I would share your disappointment at this edge after such hits.  To say that it hones right back to a good edge is one thing, but none of use want to think our edge is "half this dull when it's halfway through a deer!"   You can dress a moose with a cheap knife and sharpen it 50 times in the process....but you'll have a different knife the next time! I would look for different broadheads to improve the performance.  Can't say what brands here on the forum, but your experience tells me I won't be using Steelforce!
Tom

oldbohntr

OK, Bud mentioned one, so I will.  I have been very pleased with Tuffheads, Ashbys, and Brown Bears.

And, Bud, you're not talking apples and apples. The Bear Razorhead is soft as cheese, but it's factory angle is more than twice the angle of these.  (Not disputing that it's likely killed more game than any other bhd).
Tom

Bear Heart

The tusker wears your arm out getting the bevel set.
Traditional Bowhunters of Washington
PBS Associate Member
Jairus & Amelia's Dad
"Memories before merchandise!"

Bud B.

QuoteOriginally posted by oldbohntr:


And, Bud, you're not talking apples and apples. The Bear Razorhead is soft as cheese, but it's factory angle is more than twice the angle of these.  (Not disputing that it's likely killed more game than any other bhd).
That was my point. The Bear is the softest I've dealt with and I accept that it needs touching up frequently. It could be the angle needs increasing on the single bevel for a bit more durability. A razor sharp edge is easier when the angle is shallow (think X-Acto blades), but shallow sacrifices durability as stated.

I would contact the manufacturing company for answers. Or buy Tuskers (from Braveheart).
TGMM Family of the Bow >>>>---------->

"You can learn more about deer hunting with a bow and arrow in a week, than a gun hunter might learn all his life." ----- Fred Bear

Stumpkiller

I believe Steel Force uses a 420(C?) stainless, which is a steel that many knife makers don't fancy.  Gerber does some nice work; but it's all about the tempering.  A broadhead is left a lot softer.  So you feather out a nice edge and it rolls up on bone.  Your second image would shy me away from those heads.  I'd rather see nicks and dings than smushed.  There is no temper there to speak of.

I like file sharpened carbon steel.  1075 seems to be common.

If I pull a head out of the dirt it is resharpened before I put it back in my quiver.  Gives me time to reflect on my shame.
Charlie P. }}===]> A.B.C.C.

Bear Kodiak & K. Hunter, D. Palmer Hunter, Ben Pearson Hunter, Wing Presentation II & 4 Red Wing Hunters (LH & 3 RH), Browning Explorer, Cobra II & Wasp, Martin/Howatt Dream Catcher, Root Warrior, Shakespeare Necedah.

LittleBen

I've been using good old zwickeys and magnus, and they seem to be just fine ... although rust seems to be a killer of sharpness over th ecourse of the season for both.

Maybe I'll get into some of those tusker heads.

It appears to me that stainless steel is not the best choice with the flat shear edge for this single bevel. Would that edge have held up better if the flat side of the blade had just a slight slight bevel put on it when sharpening? Something like a couple of light passes with fine diamond hone.

bowtough

Think Abowyer heads, killed two deer with them since switching, each time complete pass through of ribs. No change to head and still shaved hair. They rock and are built like tanks. Also fly like fieldpoints.   :thumbsup:

Flying Dogg

The edge appears to be rolled over which may be a heat treat problem. I would contact Steelforce as I am sure they would be interested in the problem.

JamesKerr

I have had the same thing happen when I shot a single bevel head through my target into the dirt except mine weren't steelforce they were another really well known brand. That's why for me it's all double bevel 4 blades and 3 blade heads.
James Kerr


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