PARADOX ??

nleroux2 · November 17, 2013, 10:29:00 PM

Somewhere in archery history the word "paradox" was incorrectly inserted into the archery lexicon. The correct word is "Parallax". A "paradox" is a figure of speech in which a statement appears to contradict itself.

Parallax is a displacement or difference in the apparent position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight. i.e. the initial arrow angle relative to the true line of sight.

MR BILL SHORTY · November 17, 2013, 10:49:00 PM

legends1 · November 17, 2013, 10:54:00 PM

Thanks for your info but we may have a hard time changing it now. lol

McDave · November 17, 2013, 11:03:00 PM

Parallax or paradox, the meaning is a little different than you describe. Archer's paradox means that the arrow is pointing at full draw in a different direction than it ends up flying, at least for bows that are not cut past center. This is an actual difference in direction, not an apparent position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight. The change in direction is caused by the arrow bending around the bow as a result of forces exerted on it when it is shot.

Gen273 · November 17, 2013, 11:04:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by legends1:
Thanks for your info but we may have a hard time changing it now. lol

x2

elknutz · November 18, 2013, 01:16:00 AM

My brother has a paradox. I prefer to call them a couple of little wienies. They are nice little dogs regardless of what we call them.

Don Stokes · November 18, 2013, 09:58:00 AM

The paradox is that the arrow and the bow aren't pointed at the same place, but the arrow still gets there. That was Dan Quillian's explanation of the use of the term. "Paradox" isn't just for speech.

par·a·dox
noun \\ˈper-ə-ˌdäks, ˈpa-rə-\\

: something (such as a situation) that is made up of two opposite things and that seems impossible but is actually true or possible

: someone who does two things that seem to be opposite to each other or who has qualities that are opposite

: a statement that seems to say two opposite things but that may be true

November 18, 2013, 10:35:00 AM

Sorry, but parallax is incorrect also. Parallax refers to the "apparent" position of an object as opposed to the actual position.

In the case of an arrow, it actually is pointed away from the target. However, due to the flex of the arrow, caused by the lateral movement of the string rolling off the fingers at release, the arrow flexes around the riser, and ultimately goes where it is intended.

The "paradox" is the apparent contradiction between where the arrow is pointed and where it ultimately hits. In other words something that doesn't seem possible actually ends up happening.

Burnsie · November 18, 2013, 11:33:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by Tooner:
Sorry, but parallax is incorrect also. Parallax refers to the "apparent" position of an object as opposed to the actual position.

In the case of an arrow, it actually is pointed away from the target. However, due to the flex of the arrow, caused by the lateral movement of the string rolling off the fingers at release, the arrow flexes around the riser, and ultimately goes where it is intended.

The "paradox" is the apparent contradiction between where the arrow is pointed and where it ultimately hits. In other words something that doesn't seem possible actually ends up happening.

Tooner, well said, that is what I was going for, but your definition/explanation is much better than what I would have come up with.

FerretWYO · November 18, 2013, 11:46:00 AM

I think that if you go back in time you can see that the parradox is a question. So the fact that an arrow didnt fly straight was a question with no answer at first.

Parrallax is what happens when looking through water or glass sometimes. Or if you have had to much of the bubbly.

What an arrow actually does is answer the paradox with the appropriate amount of deflection to achieve the desired outcome.

Ric O'Shay · November 18, 2013, 12:01:00 PM

Now then, I hope we have that settled.....

Bladepeek · November 18, 2013, 12:45:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by elknutz:
My brother has a paradox. I prefer to call them a couple of little wienies. They are nice little dogs regardless of what we call them.

I like the "pair o' dachs"

Really useful little rascals

beaunaro · November 18, 2013, 01:04:00 PM

I believe this finally explains why I miss so much when bow fishing....

It seems to be a matter of alignment....

The outcome of the "paradox" doesn't impact at the exact "par"fect spot, due to the ap"par"ent mystery of "parallax".

Glad I have that figured out now....

**DONOTDELETE** · November 18, 2013, 01:24:00 PM

If the paradox = parallax wouldn't the mathematical representation be Ex-lax?

take 2 and call me in the morning....

Bowwild · November 18, 2013, 02:07:00 PM

Even if you like both these Docs you won't be able to keep them now that .....CARE has kicked in.

olddogrib · November 18, 2013, 02:53:00 PM

Yep, don't have my trusty Webster's Unabridged or even a "Funk & Wagnall's handy, but I was under the impression that somewhere there's a generally accepted definition of paradox as an enigma, mystery, or something defying easy explanation. Thus, an arrow pointing away from center will wrap around the riser and continue travel on a center line.

Brandywine · November 18, 2013, 03:18:00 PM

I recall someone on TradGang attributing the ARCHERY
application of "paradox" to Mr. Elmer, a legendary trad archer in the 1920's period. As noted above, Mr. ELMER simply used that term (for the first time) to indicate the arrow pointing to the left of the tgt. Technically, HE did not use it to describe the bending of the arrow. I think 3R may sell Elmer's book.

Sixby · November 18, 2013, 03:53:00 PM

If an arrow wrapping around the bow window is paradox, Then what is it when the arrow deflects away from the sight window?
Perhaps we should simply use the terms deflexion and reflection, I will now reflect on this or should I deflect from the subject?

God bless, Steve

Brandywine · November 18, 2013, 04:33:00 PM

Terms, even scientific and engineering ones, seem to become progressively more misused over time. One generation in time is enough to make Sir Isaac Newton roll in his grave.

For example:
Ballistically, the term "drift" pertains ONLY to SPIN induced movement from the line of sight.
"Deflection" refers to movement induced ONLY by wind.

Yet, even so - called experts, advertising, manuals, etc. often use "wind drift" to describe deflection. Our archers see such and repeat it. When politely counseled, the misusers now use "spin drift" as a convenience.

Arrow spine is NOT arrow spline. They are different.

Paradox is widely used, incorrectly, to describe the shaft bending around the riser. It's defined/used incorrectly in some training/coaching manuals.

Most simply don't care! Part of this may be due to archers never bothering to "read" more than pulp magazines. One, highly respected sporting magazine used to send every submission to a panel of PhD experts. Over 90% of the articles were rejected for incorrect information that the authors would not correct. Those articles, containing the uncorrected errors, usually found their way into other magazines.

As one gray beard once shared: The average person doesn't want complete answers if it contradicts what they believe. "Don't ever try to teach them anything; most get mad."

2treks · November 18, 2013, 04:58:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Sixby:
If an arrow wrapping around the bow window is paradox, Then what is it when the arrow deflects away from the sight window?

God bless, Steve

Stiff Spine Steve.

:p