There are lots of times when I am confused and surprised by the way people think.

Why any one would think that a deposit SHOULD be refundable is beyond me. As a buyer you are entering into an agreement to make a purchase and consumating that agreement with a deposit. To expect it back because you change your mind is unreasonable.

Yes if you become a victim of circumstance I think it fair to appeal to the bowyers humanity but that should be at his discretion, I don't think it should be expected.

Conversely if the bowyer exceeds his timing commitment or misses weight beyond whatever their stated parameters it should be his responsibility to return the deposit.

Logic dictates that if it were not so why would anyone ask for a deposit in the first place??????????

Dan

my experiences making and selling bows is not current but from the early 90's on...I dont think this is too different from now with one main exception ...the internet...back in those days most sales were generated from doing hunting shows etc, or direct from my shop.The internet can make things a bit different as far as being able to get a better idea of whom you are dealing with.

there was a bit more personal involvement back then...that said in my mind a non refundable deposit is for bows that are not something normally made...say a purple heart & osage handle with elk ivory inlays etc...35# limbs, left hander etc...not something I would want hanging on the "for sale" rack in the shop...( I have friends that have had similar bows hanging for years...not to mention my taxidermist friends)what may be your dream custom bow might be something some would never want anything to do with.

all the bowyers I know and knew made their bows from materials they had in stock,(.050 & .070 glass, red elm, osage or zebra lams, and all the basic riser woods) so its not a matter of special materials etc...so unless the bow was completed in a very custom state  I would never have a problem refunding a deposit...in the case of a super custom model, I would still refund after the bow was sold...( hopefully for  few bucks more than the deposit...sometimes it does not work out that way)

the responsibility here as far as deposit protocall is on the buyer who commited to a sale. The bowyer is responsible to deliver the bow as ordered in the time frame promised...however a decent bowyer who is interested in not only his reputation, but also being understanding of circumstances of someone should work it out...

in a nutshell...a standard bow made from stock materials is no problem...its when the order gets more involved the procedure would have to be adjusted...JMHO...

If he has not even started building the bow there is no reason to not give the refund. If you wanted a some order riser wood it might be a different story but a bowyer who refuses refunds is hurting himself in the long run.

This is just my opinion but I have no problem with a bowyer that has a no refund policy (and might choose to work with someone in certain circumstances if he chooses) The policy should be clear going in and it's my choice as to whether or not to enter in to that agreement.  

By the same token, I would expect the bowyer to give me a firm delivery date.  If that date isn't met, it should be my right to demand a refund if I choose.  I'm not a big fan of the "you give me my money when I want it and I'll give you your bow when I get around to it" type of transaction.

A business transaction is a two way street.  "Stuff" comes up on both sides.  I can't tell you how many stories I've heard about  both  sides not living up to what was promised.

I think the fair response would depend on the circumstances. If someone pays a deposit to a bowyer who is on top of things and cranking out bows within a couple of months of the order, he shouldn't expect to get his deposit back.  OTOH, some bowyers are backed up and wait times are more than a year.  A lot can happen in a year, and if somebody cancels an order during that year, the main result would be to make people further down the list get their bows a little sooner.  The bowyer is not going to make any fewer bows or any less money, so long as he keeps working on his backorder list.  Obviously, if the bowyer has spent any of the deposit on material that can't easily be used on another bow, that cost should come out of the deposit.  I also don't see any problem with the bowyer keeping 10% of the deposit to cover the time he spent taking the order and making the refund.

That said, I agree that a bowyer has the right to make whatever policy he wants.  If he takes 5 years to make a bow, and demands a $1,000 non-refundable deposit up front, that's his right, so long as he can find any customers who will agree with that policy.  At my age, I wonder if I should even risk buying any green bananas, but to each his own.

QuoteOriginally posted by Whip:
I guess I never considered that a deposit should be refundable.  I have just always assumed that bowyers would be like most other businesses.  I expect them to honor the price that was quoted at the time of the order.  And I expect that if I back out on the contract through my own choice that I will lose my deposit.  

It only seems fair to me.  By the time an order is placed a bowyer has probably spent a significant amount of time with the customer, done paperwork, done the accounting on his business records (or paid someone to do it for him).  All that preliminary stuff takes time, and just like every job you've ever worked on, time is money.

Although I sure wouldn't do it, I have no doubt there are plenty of people who just can't make up their minds and would place multiple orders just to get "on the list" and hold a spot, only to cancel on all but one when the time nears.  

Keeping a credit on the books seems like a very fair solution.  If a bowyer is generous enough to offer a refund in select cases, that is going above and beyond expectations in my opinion.

X2

When I have ordered bows with a non-refundable deposit I pretty much knew it going in to the deal. A deposit to me is a promise to the Bowyer that is he is willing to make the bow I order. I will finish paying at the completion of the build.

I won't order a bow unless I have the money to pay for it stashed away.

Falling on hard times or being tight on money happens. I would consider that my problem and never think of backing out of the deal, let alone ask for the deposit back.

Thats just not right in my mind

I find myself gravitating toward bowyers who require small or no deposits, and there are actually a good many of them around. On the other hand, I fully support a bowyer's right to set their own deposit and refund policy. They should make this policy known up-front to the customer.

I take deposits in my business, and I do it to intentionally secure the business agreement. My refund policy is to determine that on a case-by-case basis. Generally, once my company begins prep work or material acquisition...the refund option disappears.

What I don't like? I don't like any business which requires my (or your) deposit toward future work, but the deposit is used to pay today's bills and keep the doors open. I think those businesses are on shaky ground.