Broadhead blade length vs. width?

Bowhunter57 · April 19, 2013, 09:32:00 AM

First, I must say that I understand...shot placement is everything. That said... I hear a lot of coversation about cutting surface vs. cutting diameter, when talking about penetration and good blood trails...on 2 blade broadheads.

* What are the differences between a long broadhead with a 1" cutting diameter and a short broadhead with a 1 1/2" cutting diameter?

Personally, I would prefer the wider cutting diameter, for a better blood trail.

* Does one design improve penetration over the other? (with consideration to shot placement)
* Does one design improve blood trails over the other? (with consideration to shot placement)

Thank you, Bowhunter57

FerretWYO · April 19, 2013, 09:43:00 AM

This will be interesting.

I will say that in my experiance as a bowhunter and guide seeing many different situations. I preffer a longer head on larger animals. The steep angles of some short large diameter heads have proven difficult on angled shots (quartering away, steep up or down).

That is only a preferance of mine and I have used other heads. For example a VPA 150 srew-in is short and steep. I took one pronghorn two whitetail, two javalina, and a mountian lion with them this year.

Though I would not hunt elk with them. Heave bone heavy hide to me say use a head with a shallow angled cutting edge. Such as the VPA 175.

Lets see what others have to say.

Recurve50 LBS · April 19, 2013, 09:45:00 AM

From what I understand from what I have read over the years here on Trad Gang:

1. The Dr Ashby reports here on Trad Gang show that a 2 blade broad head with a 3:1 ratio (3" in length to 1" in width) has tested best for penetration.

2. The sharper the cutting edge, an edge that has been sharpened to a smooth non serrated finish is best for causing blood loss because a serrated edge or a rough edge wound is quicker to close up thus closing/ reducing the amount of blood loss. A wound created by a smooth polished cutting edge is harder to close the wound thus allowing greater blood loss.

I am certainly no expert or authority on any thing. But from what I have read on this site this is as close to true as my writing skills allow me. I'm sure that what I am trying to tell you some one can come along and explain it better than I just tried to do.

Ground Hunter · April 19, 2013, 09:51:00 AM

Sharp trumps all.

Boomerang · April 19, 2013, 10:04:00 AM

Looks like Outdoor Writer and VPA Prostaffer Adam Greentree had a great trip up to the Northern Territories of Australia for buff. He took 3 great bulls, one which is the new No.1 in Australia with Trophy Takers. It was 63" tip to tip and it's official score is 108 4/8" Douglas points, breaking the previous record, set in 1983, by over 4". The other bulls were both 44" tip to tip and scored 92 and 97 Douglas Points. Other trophies taken were, donkey, scrub bull and several boars. All were taken with the VPA 2 Blade 150gr head.

ChuckC · April 19, 2013, 10:12:00 AM

What you are asking deals with mechanical advantage (MA). Without doubt the longer head will penetrate better (as will a heavier arrow), however, there comes a point where you need to ask the question, how much is enough. If an arrow / broadhead combination always goes right thru the critter, is a "better MA" system really better for you or needed ? Change the equation (maybe going for elk or moose instead of deer) and you have to re-explore it all.

ChuckC

jonsimoneau · April 19, 2013, 10:33:00 AM

No doubt that longer and narrower will penetrate best. But for whitetail sized game and under I prefer big heads. I like to shoot the biggest head that still gives me an exit hole, which depends on the bow arrow combination I am using. Broadside shots at whitetails from the ground will nearly always give us an exit hole but quartering away shots and shots from higher treestands sometimes won't. A deer shot with a big head from a high treestand that does not give an exit whole will often still not leave much blood on the ground. So to put it simply, I prefer the biggest head I can shoot that still gives me an exit hole Everytime. I'm really liking the big Simmons treesharks right now.

Boomerang · April 19, 2013, 10:37:00 AM

There is a ballance. Remember that the longer the broadhead is for any given weight, the more prone it is for the tip to curl when hitting bone and that will cause instant loss of penetration. The shallower the taper, the more mechanical advantage it has, but we are not trying to lift an object. We are trying to cut through it. So there is a ballance between length and strength for any given weight of broadhead. For instance if you had a 150gr broadhead that had a cutting diameter of 1-1/8" and a 3 to 1 ratio, it would be 3-3/8" long. The blade would be so thin that it would very easily bend or curl. It is much more important to have a strong sharp broadhead than to have a long sharp broadhead.

Bowhunter57 · April 19, 2013, 11:11:00 AM

The only problem that I have with 2 blade heads comes from one event. I shot a nice buck at 12 yards with a Grizzly 2 blade...perfectly center mass through both lungs. The only blood was some blood spray at the shot sight. I watched the buck run off, stop at 45 yards, cough and ran for another 55 yards, flipped and dropped dead. The broadhead spit through him like a hot knife through hot butter. However, there was NO blood anywhere...other than the spray at the shot sight.

This turned me off of 2 blade broadheads, due to the lack of a blood trail. Since this event, I have shot 3 or 4 blade cut-on-contact broadheads and the blood trails have always produced great results.

Just the same, I've heard from other bowhunters that have had excellent blood trails from various designs in 2 blade broadheads. Now, I'm curious if what happened to me was an isolated incident.

I appreciate the explanation of "balance" between width and length, for the application of the animal being hunted.

Bowhunter57

JimB · April 19, 2013, 12:02:00 PM

This is another one of those subjects where a little common sense goes a long way.A longer,narrower broadhead may penetrate more-if it is strong enough to hold up.Boomerang makes a good point on this.If that front end or tip bends,instead of increased penetration,you get the opposite.

If you shoot a lighter end bow,you may want to avoid broadheads that are 1 3/8"-1 1/2" wide.There are plenty in the 1 1/8"-1 1/4" to choose from.Common sense.There is a reason why there are so many in that category.

I think it is about finding a balance between cutting width and penetration,considering the power level of your bow.

Todd Cook · April 19, 2013, 03:08:00 PM

I've never shot any really BIG animals. For deer and pigs I shoot the big Snuffers. 56 pounds hill style bow, they usually go straight through. I would use them on elk.

FerretWYO · April 19, 2013, 03:12:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by JimB:
This is another one of those subjects where a little common sense goes a long way.A longer,narrower broadhead may penetrate more-if it is strong enough to hold up.Boomerang makes a good point on this.If that front end or tip bends,instead of increased penetration,you get the opposite.

If you shoot a lighter end bow,you may want to avoid broadheads that are 1 3/8"-1 1/2" wide.There are plenty in the 1 1/8"-1 1/4" to choose from.Common sense.There is a reason why there are so many in that category.

I think it is about finding a balance between cutting width and penetration,considering the power level of your bow.

Well said

Kris · April 19, 2013, 04:14:00 PM

You'll never see tip curl on a Grizzly (Kodiak), Tuff Head or VPA penetrator. Never say never...but these heads are designed specifically with that in mind.

Show us some pics with failed tips shot into an animal on either of these three heads and I'll concede. Anything can happen for sure, but these heads are a safe bet against it.

Kris

April 19, 2013, 05:10:00 PM

If the arrow is not flying straight behind the head, you will penetration. An arrow that side steps in the wind, even if it shoots fine when there is no wind, is not a hunting arrow if you are taking a cross wind shot on a windy day. For that the Hill heads are better than shorter wide heads that can grab a bucket of wind. There are two compound shooters near by that swear by the 140 grain Hills. They sharpen them exactly like the pamphlet says and declare them to be the deadliest head there is, they were having lots of lost deer with mechanical prior to this. Certainly their results are not the end all of the broadhead debate, but it does show that there is more than one thing that will get the job done. If they would have come to ask me, I would have told them to use Zwicky Eskimo lights for their setups and get them shaving sharp, but they went that route because they knew that we used Hill heads. Ours are custom ground single bevel and shaving sharp with a very fine and light serration added after they will shave hair.

rayzor150 · May 18, 2013, 03:01:00 AM

The footage of that record buff Adam Greentree shot with the VPA 150gr 2 blade was aired on the Nock On hunting show last night. Look for a rerun. That was one huge bull.

BEN · May 18, 2013, 06:59:00 AM

kind of the reason I like the 4 bl. 150gr. Magnus Stingers.....
Good sturdy tip, good penetrating angle of main blade, and the bleeders are small enough not to impede penetration much but help open the wounds.

Been using them now for about 8 yrs. even back when I used compound bow....tried the 2 blade...shot 2 animals. retrieved them successfully, but didn't esp. like the bloodtrails, so went back to the 4bl.

I DID try the 2 bl. buzzcuts from Magnus. They did leave a good trail on the 1 buck I shot with it...just don't like sharpening them....

SELFBOW19953 · May 18, 2013, 07:42:00 AM

BH57,

Yes, I have had that same problem. I shot a doe 2 years ago with a 190 gr Grizzly El Grande. Complete passthrough, I had to follow the tracks in the mud to find the deer. I shot another doe with a 160 gr Grizzly maybe 15 years ago, another passthrough, and found no blood until I found the doe. Both shots taken from treestands. I have also killed several deer with Grizzlies that I could have trailed blindfolded there was so much blood. I have no explanation.

JMG · May 18, 2013, 08:44:00 AM

I shot 2 blade broadheads until I shot a nice buck through the lungs that had hardly any blood to follow. Luckily I was able to find the buck about 60yrds away piled up. Right then and there I decided to make the switch to a 3 to 4 blade broadhead. It make sense to me that the more that is cut, the more the animal will bleed. So I started shooting a Steel Force Hellfire 4 blade broadhead, 150 grain. They fly like darts and they are tough. Two key ingredients for me in a broadhead. I never hit a deer that did not have a devastating blood trail. A blind man could follow it. Here's a typical blood trail pic to show you what a Steel Force 150 gr. 4-blade Hellfire broadhead does. But it also boils down to shot placement as well as sharpness.

Pat B. · May 18, 2013, 05:34:00 PM

Was Mr. Greentree shooting a compound bow ?

Bjorn · May 18, 2013, 07:12:00 PM

That is a good point Pat. There was definitely a compound leaning against the Buff. Also further down there is a Cues Deer taken with a compound bow too. I wish that had been revealed in the original post. It is apples and oranges.