The alloy carbon shooters must be the most level headed of the arrow camps. None of them have chimed into this hot discussion.

QuoteOriginally posted by bigbadjon:
The alloy carbon shooters must be the most level headed of the arrow camps. None of them have chimed into this hot discussion.

they're smart enuf to avoid any topic title with the words "wood arrow" or "woodie" in it.    :D

I have to agree with Rob. One year ago I started shooting nothing but traditional bows. I started off with POC. Didn't really know what I was doing but I got through making the first dozen with the help of a friend. I struggled ALL summer shooting. I never knew what to blame (my form or the arrow). One day I went out and started to bare shaft tune my arrows and broke all the ones I had left. Not very happy and almost to the point of selling my recurve. So I sweet talked the Mrs. and bought some carbon arrows. I started shooting them and could see most of the problems were me. Then I could fix it and move on. I hunted a full season with carbon. Every time I lost one I would spend hours looking for it. Sometimes I would get luck sometimes not.

Anyways after one year I'm back to wood. I still don't know what I'm talking about and read forums on this site everyday. But I love wood arrows and the way the glide through the air. After many months on a blind bale and many many changes I'm starting to group woodies in a 4" circle at 20 yards. I really couldn't be happier.

But from now on I will ALWAYS recommend a "newbie" to start out with carbon. Wood just broke to easily for a beginner like me and like Rob said, you can take the arrow out of the equation for a bad shot.

The precision of Easton FMJs and ACCs have defineatly peaked my interest. Does anyone shoot them? I really have not been that enthusiastic about carbon arrows but I'm not afraid of trying something new, assuming I'm lent some informed opinions. I can see why they would be less popular due to the expense.

I started on aluminium, switched to carbon, then switched to timber. Making, shooting and killing game with timber arrows warms my soul and makes me feel that little bit more connected to my ancestors' experiences. As for newbies, well, they do need some assistance in getting started with timber arrows, like shaft selection. But after a bit of tutoring they seem to get it if they're keen. I have three of my thirteen year old students from last year able to make good timber arrows, so if they can do it anybody can. Their parents were more interested in them learning the craft of making wooden arrows than just gluing components together, as it is a richer experience, and sometimes harder is better.

This isn't rocket science.  There's no reason why a newbie can't start with a good set of matched woodies. The arrows don't turn to mush, go out of round, take on a big set, etc.,  after a few shots.  At least none I've owned and shot over the past 50 plus years have.  Folks my age didn't have a choice.  Wood was all there was.  Most of us seemed to have learned to shoot OK. Not knocking carbon or aluminum.  But there's nothing wrong with wood for a newbie.

From a knowledgeable arrow maker, one can buy wood spined correctly and cut to the appropriate length to start with.  No shaft cutting and fiddling with different insert weights, adapters, points, etc. Trying to tune a carbon, or even an aluminum to a bow can be a lot more daunting to a newbie than occasionally straightening a wood shaft.

QuoteOriginally posted by Orion:
This isn't rocket science.  There's no reason why a newbie can't start with a good set of matched woodies. The arrows don't turn to mush, go out of round, take on a big set, etc.,  after a few shots.  At least none I've owned and shot over the past 50 plus years have.  Folks my age didn't have a choice.  Wood was all there was.  Most of us seemed to have learned to shoot OK. Not knocking carbon or aluminum.  But there's nothing wrong with wood for a newbie.

From a knowledgeable arrow maker, one can buy wood spined correctly and cut to the appropriate length to start with.  No shaft cutting and fiddling with different insert weights, adapters, points, etc. Trying to tune a carbon, or even an aluminum to a bow can be a lot more daunting to a newbie than occasionally straightening a wood shaft.

yeah, and i started off with woodies back in '55, too.  dad made my first set of poc's, and within a month i was making my own arras and spinning bowstrings.  then along came james easton ...

i don't agree with newbies and woodies, that's an added handicap for them, but to each their own.  newbies have enuf on their plate than to having to deal with wooden arrows ....

Build um shoot them have fun.

QuoteOriginally posted by Orion:
This isn't rocket science.  There's no reason why a newbie can't start with a good set of matched woodies. The arrows don't turn to mush, go out of round, take on a big set, etc.,  after a few shots.  At least none I've owned and shot over the past 50 plus years have.  Folks my age didn't have a choice.  Wood was all there was.  Most of us seemed to have learned to shoot OK. Not knocking carbon or aluminum.  But there's nothing wrong with wood for a newbie.

From a knowledgeable arrow maker, one can buy wood spined correctly and cut to the appropriate length to start with.  No shaft cutting and fiddling with different insert weights, adapters, points, etc. Trying to tune a carbon, or even an aluminum to a bow can be a lot more daunting to a newbie than occasionally straightening a wood shaft.

Your right, there's nothing wrong with a newbie shooting wood. BUT why give them that handicap? When you have a flyer then you can point out what they did wrong in their form, and they can't say well I think its the arrow. I didn't know what I was doing trying to straighten an arrow when I first started. I didn't know anything about wood arrows, and didn't have somebody that could teach me everything. So I rely on this site and everybody here. I just feel very strong on starting somebody out on carbon (IMO). At least for a week are so. If you can have a teacher or somebody that's been around the sport for awhile, yeah why not do wood. But if your like me and don't have somebody watching my form and everything that goes with it. Carbon are a better choice (once again IMHO). Once again like Rob said, to each their own.

QuoteOriginally posted by bigbadjon:
The precision of Easton FMJs and ACCs have defineatly peaked my interest. Does anyone shoot them? I really have not been that enthusiastic about carbon arrows but I'm not afraid of trying something new, assuming I'm lent some informed opinions. I can see why they would be less popular due to the expense.

I started shooting ACCs several years ago out of my compounds.  For all around hunting/3d/target shooting, I doubt there is a better arrow.  The aluminum/carbon composite arrow combines the best characteristics of both.  A little spendy, but not a lot more than other carbons.  Plus they are black, not the nauseating fake wood grain you can only get with some carbons

I think Rob's advice is spot on.  Nothing against woodies, I'm working on a dozen now.  Carbon and aluminum shafts keep the variables to a minimum, for a beginner that's a good thing.  I'm not a newbie, but still send plenty of arrows into target frames, under bales, over bales, into trees, and about the only damage I've ever done on my ACCs is with a glancing hit on a big rock (loosing them does hurt     ).  I'm looking forward to my new wooden arrows, but accept that even though I started with a dozen of the highest quality, hand-picked shafts, I might not get twelve perfectly consistent arrows, especially as time goes on.  My ACCs don't change over time, I'm shooting some that are many years old and have been stripped and refletched so many times the label has worn off.  I have to keep re-writing the spine on them.  I have some that laid in the hay field for a couple of years before they turned up, can't tell which ones they are once they are refletched.  I know wood can be great, and nothing is a beautiful as a wooden arrow, but as far as consistency, not even in the same ball park as ACCs IMO.

Yeah, you Newbies shoot alums and carb! That's more wood for the rest of us!  :D  

Handicap.... this was suppose to be easy?

I have taken the tough road, we have enough easy in life today! With the info and tech today, you should be able to get the Best shafts, any material, Period!

Your life doesn't depend on it. My Walk!

I agree that a well-tuned carbon arrow will be extremely consistent from one shot to the next, such that a flier can be attributed to an error in form rather than arrow material.

But how does a newbie buy carbons perfectly tuned to his bow? They usually don't come that way.  A  newbie shooting carbons that aren't to tuned to his bow is just as likely to get flyers, lots of them, and not know why.  Plus, his form and accuracy probably isn't good enough to tune a carbon arrow to his bow. Just suggesting that carbons aren't a panacea, for newbies or anyone else.

a guy once told me that if i shot alum or carbon on the 3d range i could pick up 20 to 30 points on my score. i didnt really know what to say, but i never once thought of switching. i love building woodies and shooting them. i even shoot them out of my recurve which im sure sum people think is a bit diffrent, but again i never once thought of switching. im open minded to any and all arrows and like messing with different sizes of alum and carbons. there may at times be alum in my quiver but there will always be wood.  

QuoteOriginally posted by Orion:
I agree that a well-tuned carbon arrow will be extremely consistent from one shot to the next, such that a flier can be attributed to an error in form rather than arrow material.

But how does a newbie buy carbons perfectly tuned to his bow? They usually don't come that way.  A  newbie shooting carbons that aren't to tuned to his bow is just as likely to get flyers, lots of them, and not know why.  Plus, his form and accuracy probably isn't good enough to tune a carbon arrow to his bow. Just suggesting that carbons aren't a panacea, for newbies or anyone else.

Good point.

Woodies just ain't that hard.. one time it's all there was and every newbie learned how to spin a field point in their hand or a BH on a chunk of wood... roll the shaft on a table and steam and straighten or press with a spoon on the high side.. or even use the heel of the hand to straighten a shaft in the field..

People today take the easy way, looking for instant gratification instead of taking pride in the learning and doing...

There ain't nothing wrong with carbon or aluminum and I don't look down on those who shoot them, cause I sometimes do as well but I would rather use the woodies for myself..

Nothing but wood for the last 18 years.

I bought a bunch of alluminums for my recurve.  I just took it down and put it away for the year.  I'm making a conscious effort to shoot my Board bow with some matched douglas fir arrows I made.  Really looking forward to this fall...

-Jeremy  

I'm nothing but wood now too. I'm just saying in MY experience I would've rather have started with carbon and will still tell beginners if they don't have a coach or a friend to help with, start with carbon. I bought wood my first dozen and I broke them all within a month. Talk about frustration. First off I'm on a budget and have to order all my shafts online (like some of you I'm sure). When you have to spend $40 to $50 (with shipping) every month or two, it just made more sense to buy $100 carbon and not have to worry about breaking them all. I still have half that dozen after almost a year. The other half, well I lost missing the target    :rolleyes:   I agree a carbon gets lost just as easy as a woodie (obviously). I'm NOT talking about taking a "easy" way out, as if shooting carbon with a traditional bow just magically makes it "easy" and you start hitting the bulls eye every shot.    

Besides when you're lost out in the woods and need to start a fire....can't use aluminum or carbons.  

How do you toxopholites feel when you:

1. lose or break an aluminum or carbon arrow?, or

2. lose or break a wood arrow?