Bowstring Weight

[LBR]

This comment from a different thread:

The wools silencers on the string are only about 20 to 25 grains when trimmed

got my wheels turning, so I had to check.

I just weighed a strand of (white) BCY-X that was 80" long.  That's plenty for a strand in a Flemish string 64-68" long.  That entire 80" weighed a whopping 4 grains.

By comparison, a medium size brass nockset (black) weighs 4 grains.

[Orion]

Yep.  We go to all that trouble making skinny (and light) strings, and then weight them down with string silencers.

[McDave]

I was setting up a new Schafer Silvertip longbow yesterday.  With no string silencers, I found that a 55-60# spine wood shaft flew best, slightly nock right, indicating a little stiff.  A 50-55# shaft flew way weak, nock left.  Then I set my nock point to where I was getting pretty good up/down bare shaft flight. I decided to put a pair of musk ox wool string silencers on, which I mounted about 12" from each end of the bow.

My first shot after mounting the string silencers with the 55-60# shaft hit the backboard to the left of the target.  My first thought was, "Wow, that was a bad shot!"  But then I realized that what had been a slight nock right with no silencers had turned into a dramatic enough nock right with the silencer to cause the bare shaft to miss the target.

So I then tried the 50-55# shaft, which had been dramatically weak, but with the silencers was now slightly stiff.  I subsequently trimmed back the silencers enough to eliminate the slight nock right, and now the 50-55# shafts fly like the proverbial darts.

[LBR]

Well...point being, even dropping several strands isn't reducing the string weight much.

[A.S.]

I agree completely Chad.

McDave, I tell guys all the time that I tune my string to my arrows...meaning that I add silencers, and trim them ever so slightly to get the tune correct. Just a little trimming goes a long way in changing the tune of your arrow.

[damascusdave]

If a bow is not quiet without silencers it does not go hunting with me...and I will hunt probably a half dozen bows this fall

DDave

[Terry Green]

Never worried about string or silencer wieght... mute in the grand scheme of things. ....learn to shoot with tuned equipment and learn to get on game. .....all the other stuff is static.

Originally posted by Terry Green:
Never worried about string or silencer wieght... mute in the grand scheme of things. ....learn to shoot with tuned equipment and learn to get on game. .....all the other stuff is static.

Agreed!

Bisch

[SteveB]

Don't think I have ever seen more than 3fps difference wool to naked. Groups of 10 averaged - shot by hand and nothing else different.

[LBR]

Steve, that's my point.  Sometimes we obsess over things and convince ourselves it makes a big difference when it makes practically no difference.

[LBR]

Posting comments here rather than highjack the "fury vs rhino" thread.


Glad Brownell's policy has changed on giving some info. on their materials--wish they would be a bit more forthcoming as to where they actually get their materials;  i.e. BCY is proud to use DSM as their supplier.  As a general rule DSM also requires manufacturers to note their products are made from DSM material.

Apples to apples, Fury is in the same family as BCY's 8190 (100% HMPE, UHMWPE, etc.--there are several generic names for it)

SK90 is a unit of measurement (look up denier)--has nothing to do with the brand of HMPE used.  BCY uses nothing but DSM's HMPE, Dyneema (Dyneema is the trade name).

There's no way any 100% HMPE material is going to be as stable in higher temps as BCY-X.  It's just the nature of HMPE--it's a plastic fiber.  That is the whole point in integrating some Vectran into the material.

The primary reasoning behind the smaller diameter strands is flexibility, which equates to a tiny speed increase with wheel bows.  Won't affect stretch or creep.  That is affected by the material itself...450+ is relatively "fat", but has virtually no stretch or creep due to the Vectran in it.

BCY's 8190 is smaller than BCY-X.  It's made from the highest grade (SK 90) Dyneema available from one of the most respected fiber manufacturers in the world (DSM).  It doesn't stretch/creep much, but in higher temps it's not going to be as stable as BCY-X;  i.e., it's going to have a little creep.  How much depends on lots of variables like draw weight, actual temp, strand count, etc.

As far as I know, Brownell has no material comparable to BCY-X.  The next best thing would be BCY's 452X, which has been the standard in the wheel world for years and years.

I know...we don't shoot wheels.  However, when it comes to strings, we are looking for the same thing.  Consistency, durability, stability, a quiet shot.  That side of the sport has the money and equipment to do real tests;  and on the high-end it's way too competitive to not take advantage of anything that can give an edge.

But, like I say on my site, don't take my word for it.  Everyone has their preferences--do your own tests and see what works best for you.

BCY has been encouraging this for the last few years by setting up at traditional venues and making deals and giving samples.  Since that began, and more people have been encouraged to do their own "tests", sales to traditional shops has gone up exponentially.

If you make strings and/or have a shop and want to do your own comparison, just give me a holler.  I can help you get a sample of BCY material to try out and then you can make your own call.

[SteveB]

Good info as always Chad.

[L82HUNT]

Chad good info as always

What I'm not getting.     From what is claimed fury is basically 8190 but without gore added.    
 So how is it showing to be as stable on high poundage bows in the high heat with no vectran      What am I missing?  

"X" is not moving at all on my high poundage bows even when it's been 90 degrees and humidity threw the roof

[LBR]

From what is claimed...

There's your answer.

There's more to it that most folks realize.  Saying a material is "SK90" is like saying "I shoot a 55@28 recurve".  Ok, that could be 100% true but it leaves out a ton of details that, for someone who knows a bit about recurves, could make a huge difference in feel, looks, performance, etc.  On the other hand, for someone that doesn't know squat about recurves, that's good enough.

I saw a picture (advertisement) of a bow that was pulled to...around 40", if I remember correctly.  Looked like it was going to fold in half, but the claim was the bow wasn't damaged.  A friend of mine got one of those bows...it blew up when he pulled it to 28" and the guy that made it wouldn't replace it.  Claims vs. reality.

Use enough strands, pre-stretch, etc. etc. etc. and you can "honestly" say that Dacron won't stretch.  The devil is in the details.

[kat]

Originally posted by A.S.:
I agree completely Chad.

McDave, I tell guys all the time that I tune my string to my arrows...meaning that I add silencers, and trim them ever so slightly to get the tune correct. Just a little trimming goes a long way in changing the tune of your arrow.

Interesting. I learn something new on here everyday. Thanks, A.S.

[LBR]

I don't know if that's something particular to wool silencers, certain bows, etc.  I use cat whiskers (small ones) and I can't shoot the difference in having them on the string vs. none at all.

I'm no professional, but I am decent.  Based on my experience with strings, I don't think a few grains of silencer material alone is making the difference.

[Arctic Hunter]

Chad,
How well does 452X perform in a flemish string? Like I said in the other thread, I'm happy with BCY-X, but I'm almost out and like to experiment. Is it quieter?

[Tedd]

Been using 452X for several years. Works great, makes a quiet string. I know how many strands works for my with nock fit...etc so I see no reason to change. If you take care when making a flemish twist string with 452X it won't stretch much during break-in. And after a week, it never moves. Usually there is some break-in stretch. But maybe I'm getting better at making strings. I recently made a string on a stinking hot day, outside on the back porch. I strung up the bow and set the brace height. I checked it about 2 hours later and it hardly moved! It's been strung all week and still hasn't moved more than a twist or so. I really took time making sure each strand stayed the same length and pulled the sting to keep twists tight. Possible the heat helped with that? maybe the wax melted as I worked? I contrast, using the same material and hanging 50 lbs on it for a few days made strings that took a while to break in.
I can't tell any difference between 2 bundle strings and 3 bundle strings.
Tedd

[LBR]

I haven't run it through a chrony, but based on what I know about the materials 452X will be a tiny bit slower (same diameter string), a tad less durable, and maybe a little quieter.

All of these are due to the increased amount of Vectran in 452X (33%, vs. 17% in BCY-X).  Vectran is heavier than Dyneema and less durable, but also seems to dampen noise a little better.

Like BCY-X, it's a very stable material.  The reason BCY-X only has 17% Vectran is because BCY-X is SK90 Dyneema, vs. SK75 Dyneema in 452X.  It's stronger, with less stretch/creep, so less Vectran is needed to stabilize it.

Shoot me an e-mail and I'll help you out on some material.

Chad

[Tedd]

Next time I get string I'll get 3 spools of BCYX. How many strands would equal the diameter of 18 strands of 452X?