Another Question about Heavy Bows: Length?

[KSdan]

Been reading and thinking about the heavy bow thread as well as to my own experience and curiosity.  So my thought and question:

I am 53.  Shoulders getting sloppy but working out to keep them viable.  I have a long draw at 30.5". I typically shoot a 62" curve around 55#.  A couple of years ago original owner Mike at the Nocking Point let me borrow a 66" curve in the 65ish# range.  I was shocked how well I could draw and shoot it.  It really did not feel radically more than my 55#.  It has had me thinking these past years. . .

Explain to me the longer bow higher #.  So a guy gains with higher #, but does he then lose with the longer limbs?  How about higher #- is it just easier with longer limbs?  Compare my 55# 62" to say a 55# 66"?  

I am really considering trying my Black Widow SA with 64 limbs in that mid 65ish area?  What think all of you?

Thanks
Dan in KS

[mmgrode]

All else equal- with longbows, speed will INCREASE with increasing bow length up to around 72".  The limbs don't have as far to move when they're shot.  

The sensation of a lighter weight than you're holding likely comes from the string angle(less angle with the longer bow- less finger pinch), but could also be dependent on what draw length the particular bow is made for.  A 30.5" draw on a bow built for a 28" draw will result in substantial stacking thereby dramatically increasing the weight at the back end of the draw.

[Archie]

Dan, I thought the SA riser maxed out at 62".  I could be mistaken, but I think the longer MA series riser is the only BW recurve that can take limbs for a 64" bow.

[KSdan]

Thanks guys.  I wondered about that Roman. May try a different bow if I can find the right deal and timing. BTW- I am in your line of work!

[damascusdave]

Sticking with a 62 inch bow but going to static tip limbs might accomplish what you are looking for...I like my RER at 30 inch draw but there are others

DDave

[Orion]

Generally, a longer bow will feel smoother with less finger pinch as mmg pointed out, and that contributes to it feeling lighter.  In your case, it may also have been due to somewhat different designs.  Not all recurves are created equal.  The longer bow just might have had a better design.

Also, were both bows marked the same weight at the same draw length.  If not, you may have been drawing somewhat less poundage than you thought with the longer bow.

[KSdan]

Jerry- Not sure about designs, static limb (?), etc.  My bow is a Black Widow- SA 62" 53# at 30.  The 66" was a Blacktail Elite- 65ish (can't remember 63 or 66??) at 30".  I have another Blacktail Elite here in 64"- 54# at 30 that I may part with if I can find a low to mid 60# alternative.  I have been thinking/reading/considering a lot about heavier bows.

Thanks again
Dan

[Orion]

Oh, to be young again.  I enjoyed shooting heavier bows when I was younger.  Now shooting bows in the mid 50s range.  

Do know what you mean about one bow feeling lighter than it actually is though.  Given the bows you describe, i expect most of it is due to bow length.

I had a weird experience a few weeks ago similar to yours. As I said, I normally shoot 64-inch longbows and hybrids in the mid-50# range.  Terry at the Footed Shaft had a 62-inch Berry longbow on his rack.  I drew it a few times and thought, this feels pretty good.  Was considering buying it until I looked at the weight.  It was marked 62#@28 inches, my draw length.  Couldn't be, I told Terry.  

He was at the WTA annual meeting and banquet so I came back the next day with my bow scale and drew the bow again.  Still felt like much less, about like my 56# ACS for example, but read 62# @28 inches exactly on the spring scale, which I know is accurate.  Go figure.  I didn't buy it because I figured I'd come to my senses somewhere down the road and really feel the weight.  

It's still in the back of my mind however.  Never drew a bow that felt so much under its actual weight.  Design,materials?  Don't know what accounts for it, but it's real.

[hvyhitter]

Recurves 62" plus just seem so much smoother and more forgiving than short bows. A 66" JH GM Jet was one of the smoothest bows Ive ever shot, even at 67#. A 64" Wes Wallace and 62" King Panther are very close seconds  (both65#)   ........I just no longer shoot or have any interest in recurves less than 60" or longbows under 66"........

[Bear Heart]

Hybrids and statics for me.

[dragonheart]

At your draw length, a 64" bow has got to feel smoother.  With that said, not all bows that are longer have the same working limb, so may not feel smoother on the draw.  Heavy and smooth is a great combination.

[KSdan]

Thanks for all the input.  

From what I understand, the Black widow SA I shoot at 62" is comparable to many bows at 64".

It seems like I was a part of this "revival" wave to traditional archery in the 1970/80s.  Many of us at that time started with the heavier 60+# bows.  This was even being advocated by the trad world spokes-people (Asbell to Shulz).  I recall my friends with new custom Bighorns, Amer. LB, and Widows were often more than 60#. Now, whether by coincidence that we are aging or something else, there seems to have been this general philosophical shift to lighter bows.

I am not making a case one way or the other, but it does have me curious. . .In this shift there is all this discussion about proper placement etc.,  which no doubt is critical.  However, after hunting with trad for 30 years, taking my share of game, hearing plenty of stories, and watching a fair number of videos (even with compounds), hits and discussions of recovery are more often less than optimal placement. I think this is a reality we need to contend with when it comes to hunting    

My point is simple: When it comes to taking a shot at a live/moving target, with no warm up, nerves are coming unglued, etc. I want everything I can get in my favor- which may just include a quicker draw/shot with more poundage than we typically advocate these days.  This was old school and maybe there was something right about it.  

So- I am rethinking heavy bows. . .

Dan in KS

[bowhuntingrn]

I'm not a bowyer, but I believe it has as much to do with the design of the bow as anything. I have a 56" hybrid 50@28 that is as comfortable to shoot as my 64" d-shaped 45@28 and more so than a 72" 52@28 English longbow. I figured with the extra length of the ELB the extra couple of pounds would be negligible, I was wrong, I can feel both of them and then some. Just my .02

[arrow flynn]

I draw 27.5 when I went to bob Wesley for instruction I had him order a hill bow for me it went to him and he then sent it to me in ca .he stated that he knew what I needed and what would shoot the best for me.ITwas a 70 inch bow very smooth at my draw length and a great shooting bow .I sold it recently because I had to switch to lefty.The extra length was an asset.

[Orion]

KS:  re the 62-inch BW being comparable to 64-inch in some other recurves.  Certainly in terms of finger pinch, or lack thereof, that's true.  The belly-mounted limbs on a Widow don't flex as much/far as back-mounted limbs at the same draw length. As a result, they also have to be made just a tad stiffer (vis-a-vis back mounted limbs), or oriented (shallower angle coming off the riser) for a little more initial load to yield the same draw weight at a given draw length.

Regardless, not something one is likely to notice.  May affect the way a bow "feels"to us, and some like one feel, others, another.  The short of it is that rear mounted limbs do enable a bit longer draw without increased finger pinch.

[nineworlds9]

To me, a longer bow just gives your muscles more mechanical advantage.  Finger pinch aside I think that's why I like my higher DW bows to be longer.  My heaviest bow is a 94@29 69" Hill style bow and I'd rather shoot that any day vs say a 60" bow that's 65-70#.