Hunting with a 38 # longbow is it enough? Now with video clip!

[Razorbak]

several years ago in TBM they had a article with light bows and heavy shafts..women who wasnt able to pull heavy weights but using shafts that was extremely heavy was having success on deers and elks and hogs..the whole purpose was to use heavy shafts and proper shot placement was the key..when I was living in Germany as a kid ..I became friends with a German butcher(old school butcher) who hunted with his guns..well he killed a red deer and was teaching me how to butcher..he knew I shot bows and asked me if a arrow would penetrate the shoulder..wasnt sure at the time..I went home and got a 35# bow and a heavy 600grain shaft with a old school bear razorhead that I sharpened and shot the scapula at 15 yards and the shaft penetrated about halfway thru..needless to say I was impressed and so was he..he saved that and after it dried ..he hung it in his butcher shop..so it is debateble whether 38# would do it or not but with a 31" draw..your generating more energy than say me with a 27" draw..if able to draw more weight then I personally would do so but ultimitly if its legal then its your choice...good luck

[Bowwild]

Just the scapula should be fine for the first cut (pun intended). If the set-up doesn't penetrate, case closed. If the broadhead gets through, then you'll need to add a bit more realism with some muscle and hide.

[camoman]

Not legal in Texas. If it were I would still hunt with at least a 50# bow just to make sure.

[tecum-tha]

This a a very light setup even with an heavy arrow. And red stags are closer to elk in bone structure than to whitetail deer. I would consider 50# a minimum and I don't think this bow would be legal in Norway to hunt this kind of game either. During bowhunting, shot angles can change upon the reaction of the animal, so a little more firepower usually helps when something doesn't go 100% right. And 100% right is not very likely....
And in all honesty, a grown men should be able to pull 50# easily. I disagree with the current movement to use target weight bows for big game hunting....

[buejeger]

Well the test is done.... I will be getting the video sorted once I get the kids to bed and will get it up on my server and send Ronny the links for posting.... This was a very interesting test... To say the least.... Especially for me and Ronny that have hunting recurves in the 50 to 70# range... I shot from 42 to 65# Ronny shot from 38 to 66# if I remember correctly...
Sorry guys, but youre gonna have to wait just a little longer for the vids...

[Margly]

Originally posted by tecum-tha:
This a a very light setup even with an heavy arrow. And red stags are closer to elk in bone structure than to whitetail deer. I would consider 50# a minimum and I don't think this bow would be legal in Norway to hunt this kind of game either. During bowhunting, shot angles can change upon the reaction of the animal, so a little more firepower usually helps when something doesn't go 100% right. And 100% right is not very likely....
And in all honesty, a grown men should be able to pull 50# easily. I disagree with the current movement to use target weight bows for big game hunting....

Unfortunately it's not legal to bowhunt in Norway!
But I have an opinion that with a proper setup you could hunt with poundage under 50.

It all have something to do with how accurate, close, weight of arrow, sharp broadheads and to pick the right game      When it all comes to be able to pull more than 50# what
about the men and women who cant do it because of strength or muscle/skeleton issues, should they just stop the bowhunt?

I know this setup probably is on the light side of what many would choose, but that aint the point!

The point is:
Will it penetrate the scapula enough to kill at a 20 yard distance?

Margly

[Mudd]

   

[Cory Mattson]

enough of this scapula talk. That is not what bowhunting is about. Forget whatyou might be able to do - animals move - and 38# is NOT enough for big game hunting - and I do not care if there are people who can't pull a hunting weight bow - if I live long enough it will happen to me. The answer is YES if someone cannot handle a heavier bow then they should not hunt big game with a bow. Get over it and get a real bow if you want to hunt big game. Playing around with a 38# bow on red deer will hurt our cause. And even if a 38# bow does penetrate a scapula it does not qualify  that bow as efficient big game archery tackle.
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[Night Wing]

Originally posted by camoman:

Not legal in Texas.

The above is incorrect. Texas does not have a minimum draw weight requirement so a 38# bow is legal. Click on the link below and scroll on down to the section for longbows, compound bows and recurve bows.

  http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/hunt/means/

[jason1040]

I agree with Cory, we shouldn't even mess around with how low of poundage we can get away with. When the time comes that I will no longer be able to pull a +40lb bow, then I will pursue game with a rifle or a camera. The animals that we hunt deserve that we shoot them with equipment that doesn't meet the "bare minimum". These are only my thoughts...to each their own.

[Margly]

Originally posted by Cory Mattson:
enough of this scapula talk. That is not what bowhunting is about. Forget whatyou might be able to do - animals move - and 38# is NOT enough for big game hunting - and I do not care if there are people who can't pull a hunting weight bow - if I live long enough it will happen to me. The answer is YES if someone cannot handle a heavier bow then they should not hunt big game with a bow. Get over it and get a real bow if you want to hunt big game. Playing around with a 38# bow on red deer will hurt our cause. And even if a 38# bow does penetrate a scapula it does not qualify  that bow as efficient big game archery tackle.
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Not what bowhunting is about???

In my opinion the more I know about penetration and how different bowweights is functional the better.

For the "cause" of bowhunting I would like to know so much as possible before I go out hunting just to secure that I don`t do anything I shouldn`t do.

If 38# is enough I don't know because I`ve never tried it!
But I do believe that it is possible.

Margly

[Margly]

Originally posted by jason1040:
I agree with Cory, we shouldn't even mess around with how low of poundage we can get away with. When the time comes that I will no longer be able to pull a +40lb bow, then I will pursue game with a rifle or a camera. The animals that we hunt deserve that we shoot them with equipment that doesn't meet the "bare minimum". These are only my thoughts...to each their own.

well said!

Just to clarify:
I`m not out to "preach" for as low poundage as possible, I just wanna see the result.
And as soon as photobucket is finished uploading I`ll post it    

BTW in the test I also did shoot a DAS with Border limbs 58# with a 710grain arrow, and a Firefly longbow 65# with 827 grain arrow to see the results.

Margly

[Margly]

I`m having a problem with photobucket so Nathan aka buejeger will post the vid of the 38# firefly shot.


Margly

[buejeger]

Just to put things in perspective, both I and Ronny regularly shoot heavy bows from 50 to 72# but we wanted to see the results of hitting a scapula (of course not where we would be aiming but as others have said animals move) with a lower poundage bow...  Put it in the boiler room and ofcourse 40# will do the job, but what if things go wrong?  We like to test and see.  I also shot my 65% Border limbed DAS.
Here is a foto of the damage done to the thickest part of the scapula with a 42# Black douglas recurve, 650 grain arrows, Beman mfx 500 spine, 50 grain brass insert and Nanook broadhead...
This bow delivers the same speed as my 50# black widow...
And with this arrow delivers 0.45 slug momentum....
   

[buejeger]

Here is a video of Ronny shooting his 38# longbow...
 Video

[buejeger]

And here I am shooting the 42# Black Douglas aiming for the leg bone......
 Video

[Margly]

OK then the vids are up  

Apparently the number on the side of the bow is just a number.  Killing power is about the arrow, how good it flies, how good the broadheads works, and to a degree how fast it is going versus its weight and  also where it is placed. No one would criticize someone using a 55 pound selfwood flat limb, but if the bow has less than that 40 on the handle, even if it shoots the same arrow faster than the selfwood, watch out.  There is a point where on a standing animal the arrow will either not penetrate or bounce off with a large bone hit.  i have seen a number of mechanical broadheads fail miserably out of long draw fast shooting compounds.  I am not comfortable with generalities being cast over the bow weight issue, every individual needs to try to get the best set up for their own parameters.  If these videos are any clue, there is plenty of power shown to kill any deer in in Iowa.  I would opt for more power on something as large as a small elk for myself.

[Margly]

Originally posted by pavan:
Apparently the number on the side of the bow is just a number.  Killing power is about the arrow, how good it flies, how good the broadheads works, and to a degree how fast it is going versus its weight and  also where it is placed. No one would criticize someone using a 55 pound selfwood flat limb, but if the bow has less than that 40 on the handle, even if it shoots the same arrow faster than the selfwood, watch out.  There is a point where on a standing animal the arrow will either not penetrate or bounce off with a large bone hit.  i have seen a number of mechanical broadheads fail miserably out of long draw fast shooting compounds.  I am not comfortable with generalities being cast over the bow weight issue, every individual needs to try to get the best set up for their own parameters.  If these videos are any clue, there is plenty of power shown to kill any deer in in Iowa.  I would opt for more power on something as large as a small elk for myself.

Well said    

I`m totally agreeing with you.
This test was done to see how good or bad the penetration was with low poundage and high poundage.

My hunting bows are heavier and my goto longbow is a Firefly in 65@31 and with 827 grain arrows I know I have the power to kill game that comes inside my killzone.

But I really got an eyeopener today regarding the hard-hitting arrows from a 38# longbow    

Margly

[Bjorn]

Thanks Margly and Buejager! Interesting and well done.