Ultra Cam???

Oliverstacy · February 27, 2010, 04:03:00 PM

So I was out an about this afternoon and ran into this...spool of Tan/Brown/Green tricolor Ultra Cam, awesome looking stuff!

So I was wondering what strand counts people are using and how it compares to other material on the market. I like the way the color changes and will probably just make two bundle strings from the same spool...unless I can find another spool in a different color. Even with just the one spool the strings are going to look awesome!

So how are you using Ultra Cam?

Thanks,

Josh

outdooru · February 27, 2010, 05:05:00 PM

I switched to UltraCam about 8 months ago and love it. I shoot an ACS at about 47#'s and use 8 strands with padded loops and center serving. Stretch is nil, strength is good, speed and sound is good. I have 2 tri-color spools and made strings with both a single spool and both spools. The strings look best IMO using just one tri-color spool. The colors just lay out better that way.

DTD · February 27, 2010, 09:34:00 PM

I am shooting an 8 strand on my Saluki. 57#@29.
I really like it. I only had to adjust the brace height 1/4" one time after I put in on new.

katman · February 27, 2010, 09:47:00 PM

8 strand 2 bundle flemish, padded loops to 14, double served. Stretches less than the D97 for me and just a quiet.

Oliverstacy · February 28, 2010, 02:45:00 AM

Awesome guys...I'm going to twist my first one here real soon.

Thanks,

Josh

Jesse Peltan · February 28, 2010, 01:03:00 PM

Every strand of ultra cam is good up to 12# of draw weight. Use 3 up to 36#, 4 from 36-48, 6 from 48-72, 8 from 72-96#, 9 from 96-108. Use these numbers because they are more than safe for the string and the easiest on your bow. An overbuilt string can be just as dangerous as an underbuilt string. Remember to pad the loops to 18 strands. If the strand counts follow these recommendations the strings can be used on old bows too. Now if your making a string for an old bow it's especially important not to use more strands in the body than necessary.

LBR · February 28, 2010, 01:22:00 PM

"An overbuilt string can be just as dangerous as an underbuilt string."

You posted similarly about Dynflight or 8125 the other day. I want to ask again, where do you get these numbers, and what do you base the statement I quoted on? I never saw a reply the last time I asked.

I don't claim to know it all, but I have made quite a few strings for quite a few people. An overbuilt string can be a hinderance, but I've never heard anything about an overbuilt string causing bow failure, or breaking unexpectedly, etc.

I haven't used Ultra Cam myself--I don't trust it. Way too much Vectran in it--over 50%. Vectran has practically no stretch or creep, but it can act like Kevlar in that it can break without warning. You won't find any bowstring that's made exclusively from Vectran. One company tried that, and it was a disaster.

Chad

Tater · February 28, 2010, 01:50:00 PM

I have been using Ultra-Cam for more than 2 years, I use 10 strands of UC and pad the loops to 14 strands. UC was recommended to me by a local Archery shop owner who has built hundreds of strings and as far as I know I have never heard of a failure due to the material and I have never had a string failure.

My opinion is it is the best low stretch material I have used for making strings.

LBR · February 28, 2010, 02:42:00 PM

Well, for what it's worth I've averaged around 1,000 strings a year for the last several years, and quite a few strings a year before that. Like I said, I don't claim to know it all.....but I do have a bit of experience.

I haven't used UC, I just have an opinion on it based on talking to others, and based on the fact that a 100% Vectran string material nearly bankrupted a company.

There are no magic string materials, just like there are no magic arrows and no magic bows. Most of the best shots I personally know use 8125 or Dynaflight '97.......but that's not why they are so good. They are so good because they know how to set up their bows and they practice.

Anyhow, I'm just offering another string maker my opinion.

Chad

Tater · February 28, 2010, 05:02:00 PM

Chad,
Didn't mean to offend anyone, you gave your opinion of a material you have no first hand knowledge of, only hearsay.
I gave my opinion of a material I do have experience with. And by the way I had a small Trad Archery shop and made strings from Dyna Flite 97 and it is great material.
I prefer Ultra Cam.

LBR · February 28, 2010, 08:11:00 PM

I understand what you are saying, but my information wasn't "heresay". I have some good connections when it comes to strings and string materials. When certain people tell me a material is prone to failure, I know it's a fact.

I understand going on your experience. I think that at least sometimes it's better to build on what others already know rather than make the same mistakes.

Like I said, just offering up what I know about the Vectran. When you have a string material that's made with over 50% of a material that I know breaks without warning, I won't trust it. I'd feel real bad if I didn't say something then found out later someone got hurt.

Chad

LBR · February 28, 2010, 08:33:00 PM

I did a little more homework. Rod Jenkins knows more about strings and string materials than anyone else I know, and I just got off the phone with him. He's one of the main reasons I won't trust a material with a lot of Vectran in it. He feels the same way about it. I asked him if he minded me metioning his name, and he was cool with it.

The material that was 100% Vectran was called "Streamline". It was BCY's first material, and it almost sunk them before they got started.

vermonster13 · February 28, 2010, 08:47:00 PM

Rod posted on a thread on Trad Talk that he offered strings made from Ultra-Cam for a while but there wasn't much interest in it then. It is used for the cables on quite few competition compound shooter bows and if Ultra-Cam had any tendency to break one would think definitely that would be a place it would give out. I've been using it for a while now and have been happy with the results. Of course Ultra-Cam is a blend and not 100% Vectran. Brownell has been making string materials for a long time and is where the BCY crew got it's start so I would think they have an idea of how to make a good string material.

Str8Arrow · February 28, 2010, 09:01:00 PM

My brother owns an archery shop and makes strings, not only for his customers, but for several other shops for the past 6 years and most of them from Ultra Cam. He has not had a single failure and most were made for 70 lb compounds shooting light arrows at very high speeds. I really can't say exactly how many of these strings we've made, but it's been many hundreds. If someone is having anything other than the very rare problem with it, I have to believe either the string wasn't built correctly or it was a bad batch of material. Of course, a person may put a string on and shoot a lot for many years without putting on a new string. In this situation, Ultra Cam is likely to fail prior to other materials. However, with even moderate consideration towards string life, I have to believe it's constructed well enough to withstand heavy shooting for years.

One thing for sure, if you want the least amount of stretch/creep in a string, this is the material to use.

Str8Arrow · February 28, 2010, 09:05:00 PM

I thought I should mention one more thing. The shop has a super heavy string jig and for a long time we pre-stretched the completed strings under 500-600 lbs of pressure to "set" them. We no longer do this, since after discussions with Brownell, they recommended that we don't, since they believed it would weaken the string. Even so, none have broken that we're aware of.

LBR · February 28, 2010, 09:08:00 PM

I didn't read about Rod's opinion, I talked to him on the phone a little while ago. He doesn't make strings to sell anymore, but he still knows a lot of people and knows more about strings and string materials than anyone I know or know of. He won't use a material that has a high percentage of Vectran in it.

I didn't say Ultra-Cam was 100% Vectran. It's over 50% Vectran though--56% to be precise. Vectran can break without warning, very similar to Kevlar, although they are different materials (Kevlar is Aramid, Vectran is Liquid Crystal Polymer).

Yes, the founder of BCY used to work for Brownell. My experience with BCY has been much better than the experience I had with Brownell.

I agree, you would think Brownell would have an idea of how to make good string material. But....

Remember who made B-75? Brownell. Remember what happened to B-75? It was pulled off the market because it was breaking with no warning. Several people had bows damaged. Some bowyers wound up replacing several bows--the ones that stood behind their products at least. BCY had a similar material, and they pulled theirs off the market too, for the same reason.

Using the recommended number of strands (as compound manufacturers tend to do) chances for a failure should be low. Using the bare minimum (as some of us tend to do) increases the chance of a failure by a lot.

Not like I can keep anyone from using the material, or would even try to. I just try to put out accurate and honest information. Strings are my hobby, my passion, and my business.

Chad

vermonster13 · February 28, 2010, 09:20:00 PM

BCY offers a few materials with Vectran in it also, 30% so it is a lower amount. Seems the two companies have figured out how to work with it since both materials have been a round for a while now. A lot of Shrew bows out there with six strand count strings that are 30% Vectran and string breakage hasn't been a problem for them. Everyone needs to do what they are comfortable with, if strings suddenly start breaking on me I know I'll let folks know ASAP. So far though they've performed excellently.

LBR · February 28, 2010, 09:46:00 PM

I know of problems (breaking with no warning) with 450+. Not common, not anywhere near everyone that's used it, but 450+ doesn't have near 56% Vectran either. If someone wants to order a 450+ string from me (30% Vectran, 70% Dyneema), I make it a point to let them know the facts about the material first, and many change their minds.

That is why I posted to begin with. I know of problems associated with Vectran. I've spent thousands of hours on the phone, e-mail, and in person learning about strings and string materials, besides my own personal experience with different ones. It's not heresay, it's not relying on a couple year's experience, it's not relying on one or two other's experience.

I look at it like this. I've heard about and talked to a LOT more people who have hunted from tree stands with no problems than I've heard about falling. I'd guess that I've heard about maybe.0001% of users falling. That .0001% is the reason I use a safety harness. It doesn't matter than the other 99.9999% haven't fallen.

I'll say again, I don't claim to know it all. I'm not a beginner at it either. Take it for what it's worth.

Chad

Jesse Peltan · March 01, 2010, 12:06:00 AM

LBR, sorry I didn't answer you on the other post. I never checked back on it. These numbers come from the breaking strength of the material and some standards set long ago. I use 1/2 the advertised breaking strength of the material and make sure the string's breaking strength is 5x the draw weight of the bow. Or you can use the advertised strength of the string x10.
About bows breaking due to overbuilt strings, look back at all the old bows with tips cut off from strings. These were all 12-18 strands fast flight or low counts that weren't padded. I'm shooting an old bear bow with "paper tips" using a 4strand 8125 padded to 20. It doesn't even have wood overlays. It's still going strong after about 1500 shots. Less vibration, less noise, and faster speeds. I don't see why people are still using b-50 when 8125 and ultracam work better. A little off topic, but I know someone would comment. B-50 is not quieter than a padded skinny 8125 or ultracam. The new string might be louder at first because of tuning. Once the bow is tuned, the bow will be quieter with the new string. If you took a bow tuned for ultracam or 8125 and switched to b-50 it would be way louder. Remember if you make a bow faster the speed has to come from somewhere. Either you store more energy or you put a higher percentage of energy into the arrow instead of into vibration and noise. I haven't had any nor have I heard reports of ultracam strings breaking suddenly without out warning, but if you know of some please tell me. I'm looking forward to trying the new astroflight material. It's supposed to be the best yet.

Oliverstacy · March 08, 2010, 03:50:00 PM

All,

I feel like a person that took a bat to a hornets' nest and then ran away. I really didn't mean to get this to the point of where it went! Sorry about that.

I made a 10 strand for my Savannah and it shoots nice but I'm a bite leery of it...why wouldn't I be from what I've read. With that said it shoots nice an hasn't stretched much if any...it reminds me of 450+ but has a drier feeling to it when you twist it, 450+ has a slick feeling. Both don't stretch much on the jig that is for sure.

I do have some questions about the breakage people have seen...or if you're a string maker and have sent them to people and have been told they've broken.

Where did they break? Was it where the fades end and the string is twisted tight for a small section? This is what I consider the transitions point form where the fade ends and the main body of the string starts? Was it by a serving? Under the serving...did it get pinched and can't be seen because of the serving? Was it in the loop area because it wasn't padded enough?

I guess since they're letting go without warning maybe I don't know where to look for signs of a problem. I guess if I'm going to test it myself I need to just shoot it a ton to see what will happen.

Mods if you'd prefer to let this one die please lock it up! I have no intention of letting it get people riled up and in trouble!

Thanks,

Josh