Tillering for shooting styles

[Watsonjay]

Try to learn more about tillering for shooting styles. Ive heard that for split finger even tiller is preferred, 3-under 1/8" positive. So it seemed to me that lower finger positions on the string required more positive tiller. If I have someone who string walks or has a fixed crawl they are almost always pulling at least an inch below the nocking point so I would think you would need even more positive tiller. But I was watching a video from Jake Kaminski on crawling and he said it feels better with a 1/8-1/4" NEGATIVE tiller. Granted he shoots ilf bows with rests. Any of you masters out there have knowledge on this you would like to educate me with?

Thanks
Jason

[jrstegner]

Jake is correct. For split you want positive tiller. Three under, even or negative.  Even to 1/8+ works fine for either style. Split will have a hard time tuning with negative tiller.

[Watsonjay]

Jake is correct. For split you want positive tiller. Three under, even or negative.  Even to 1/8+ works fine for either style. Split will have a hard time tuning with negative tiller.

I thought it was even for split and 1/8" positive for 3 under. Guess Ive been doing that wrong.

[Kirkll]

Typically guys ask for 1/8" positive tiller for 3 under. but i don't think it matters much myself.

 keep in mind something... a tiller measurement is just that... a measurement.

 tillering a bow is balancing the way the limbs bend, and where they bend. Self bowyers and board bows need to be tillered, and most glass or carbon backed bows require very little in the form of true tiller adjustments, and the tiller measurements are commonly used instead of putting the bow on a tiller tree and checking it carefully. I always start at even tiller, then thump the string and check for a buzz after adjusting the brace height. Often times the tiller measurements will vary a bit either positive or negative from one bow to the next if you are into fine tuning the limb balance.

 personally i think it matters more what those limbs are doing after you drop the string, than at brace height.

With all that being said, i recently had a customer who said he prefered a negative tiller with a fixed crawl shooting style. and....It Didn't make any sense to me at all.

[Watsonjay]

Typically guys ask for 1/8" positive tiller for 3 under. but i don't think it matters much myself.

 keep in mind something... a tiller measurement is just that... a measurement.

 tillering a bow is balancing the way the limbs bend, and where they bend. Self bowyers and board bows need to be tillered, and most glass or carbon backed bows require very little in the form of true tiller adjustments, and the tiller measurements are commonly used instead of putting the bow on a tiller tree and checking it carefully. I always start at even tiller, then thump the string and check for a buzz after adjusting the brace height. Often times the tiller measurements will vary a bit either positive or negative from one bow to the next if you are into fine tuning the limb balance.

 personally i think it matters more what those limbs are doing after you drop the string, than at brace height.

With all that being said, i recently had a customer who said he prefered a negative tiller with a fixed crawl shooting style. and....It Didn't make any sense to me at all.

So what did you do for the negative tiller?

To me it kinda makes sense because you drawing point will be about 2 inches below the arrow so to time the limbs properly you would need weaken bottom limb as it will be drawn further back than the top limb

[Kirkll]

Typically guys ask for 1/8" positive tiller for 3 under. but i don't think it matters much myself.

 keep in mind something... a tiller measurement is just that... a measurement.

 tillering a bow is balancing the way the limbs bend, and where they bend. Self bowyers and board bows need to be tillered, and most glass or carbon backed bows require very little in the form of true tiller adjustments, and the tiller measurements are commonly used instead of putting the bow on a tiller tree and checking it carefully. I always start at even tiller, then thump the string and check for a buzz after adjusting the brace height. Often times the tiller measurements will vary a bit either positive or negative from one bow to the next if you are into fine tuning the limb balance.

 personally i think it matters more what those limbs are doing after you drop the string, than at brace height.

With all that being said, i recently had a customer who said he prefered a negative tiller with a fixed crawl shooting style. and....It Didn't make any sense to me at all.

So what did you do for the negative tiller?

To me it kinda makes sense because you drawing point will be about 2 inches below the arrow so to time the limbs properly you would need weaken bottom limb as it will be drawn further back than the top limb

The guy i was dealing with was shooting an ILF rig and adjusted his top limb stronger or shorter tiller measurement, and it didn't make sense to me. I did'nt do anything with a negative tiller.

Common sense tells you that you want the lower limb stronger if you are sliding your fingers lower on the string to balance out the limbs and get the best performance from the limbs.  But.... Some of these guys are just doing this for the feel at full draw, and getting off the string easier i guess...

As far as arrow tuning goes, every set of limbs may need some rest height adjustment, or string nock adjustment. That's just part of the game... tunning your arrows properly is important regardless of where the location of your fingers on the string are. Hell... just applying different pressure on the riser can shift things a lot. a high wrist grip, with only putting pressure on the web of your hand, makes a lot of difference than heeling down and putting pressure lower on the grip. Guys that shoot that way with straight grip with a lower pressure point, or a  low wrist grip,  typically want an 1/8" positive tiller if both limbs are bending the same, (shorter tiller measurement on the bottom)... Some bowyers even use shorter limbs on the bottom to balance out the pressure and get the limbs bending the same.

There are many factors to consider as a bowyer, and different archers have their own methods of shooting and tunning they feel comfortable with. There is no One size fits all way to build these things.    Kirk   

[Mad Max]

I have always gone negative, between 1/8" to  3/16"
People tell me it shoots good without me asking them how it shoots, and I don't tell them it's Negative

[Watsonjay]

Typically guys ask for 1/8" positive tiller for 3 under. but i don't think it matters much myself.

 keep in mind something... a tiller measurement is just that... a measurement.

 tillering a bow is balancing the way the limbs bend, and where they bend. Self bowyers and board bows need to be tillered, and most glass or carbon backed bows require very little in the form of true tiller adjustments, and the tiller measurements are commonly used instead of putting the bow on a tiller tree and checking it carefully. I always start at even tiller, then thump the string and check for a buzz after adjusting the brace height. Often times the tiller measurements will vary a bit either positive or negative from one bow to the next if you are into fine tuning the limb balance.

 personally i think it matters more what those limbs are doing after you drop the string, than at brace height.

With all that being said, i recently had a customer who said he prefered a negative tiller with a fixed crawl shooting style. and....It Didn't make any sense to me at all.

So what did you do for the negative tiller?

To me it kinda makes sense because you drawing point will be about 2 inches below the arrow so to time the limbs properly you would need weaken bottom limb as it will be drawn further back than the top limb

The guy i was dealing with was shooting an ILF rig and adjusted his top limb stronger or shorter tiller measurement, and it didn't make sense to me. I did'nt do anything with a negative tiller.

Common sense tells you that you want the lower limb stronger if you are sliding your fingers lower on the string to balance out the limbs and get the best performance from the limbs.  But.... Some of these guys are just doing this for the feel at full draw, and getting off the string easier i guess...

As far as arrow tuning goes, every set of limbs may need some rest height adjustment, or string nock adjustment. That's just part of the game... tunning your arrows properly is important regardless of where the location of your fingers on the string are. Hell... just applying different pressure on the riser can shift things a lot. a high wrist grip, with only putting pressure on the web of your hand, makes a lot of difference than heeling down and putting pressure lower on the grip. Guys that shoot that way with straight grip with a lower pressure point, or a  low wrist grip,  typically want an 1/8" positive tiller if both limbs are bending the same, (shorter tiller measurement on the bottom)... Some bowyers even use shorter limbs on the bottom to balance out the pressure and get the limbs bending the same.

There are many factors to consider as a bowyer, and different archers have their own methods of shooting and tunning they feel comfortable with. There is no One size fits all way to build these things.    Kirk

My thought was that if there was more pressure on the bottom limb it want to travel forward more quickly to release that energy thereby being faster than the top limb in forward motion. If it was negative tillered the pressure on the limbs would be closer in timing as far as forward motion. Just how I'm processing it in my brain.

[Crooked Stic]

Most won't know the difference unless they measure it. I do ell mine even.set my nock 3/8 for split 5/8s 3 under. Bare shaft tuneand Cary on.