1st try at Damascus

Lin Rhea · December 28, 2007, 09:00:00 PM

Auzoutdoor,
Are you working the billet by yourself? Sometimes with cable you may want to have a helper on the other end of the cable section with tongs twisting the opposite way (tighter)you are while you hammer the strands together. This will take careful planning. Just a suggestion.
Lin

Auzoutdoor · December 28, 2007, 09:20:00 PM

Yer Lin on my own.On the 2nd one I heated it up hotter and then put it in the vice and twisted it up some turns and it got really tight and then I hammered it square and worked my way up and when I got to the handle I had welded on I flattened it and folded it back on itself and flattened that to give me enough material to make a blade.
Cheers kim

tippit · December 28, 2007, 09:23:00 PM

Lin, Not wanting to delaminate my billet is what has me looking at this piece of damascus steel :eek: I know I need to work it at a higher temp than my regular 5160, 1080, and 52100...but I'm hesitant to start...tippit

OconeeDan · December 28, 2007, 11:14:00 PM

Awesome thread, keep it going!

Toecutter · December 28, 2007, 11:24:00 PM

tacking the cable onto a piece of rebar to aid in handling as well as holding the cable seems to really hold one end together. After that, chase each strand with the hammer and have fun!!
This post is great

Doug Campbell · December 29, 2007, 12:06:00 AM

Hey Jeff, like I told ya, just fire that forge up, throw that billet in and go to work on her. If ya mess it up you'll just have to come back to MT and make another one

I know you like banging around and making lots of noise but you might want to think about a press if hammers are non-existant in MA. You can do some pretty cool work with even a smaller press. I've been scheming for some time how I can build one. Got some real good plans if your interested.

Doug Campbell · December 29, 2007, 12:15:00 AM

That second one looks like a keeper Kim, it only took one billet hammered by hand to convince me I needed a trip hammer

Course ya caint have too many toys

Just looked at George's website, looks like he built his press, you guys sure better go play with it if you get a chance.

Auzoutdoor · December 29, 2007, 12:47:00 AM

I am def keen on some plans of a press or hammer I could make if someone would be kind enough to email them to me that would be fantastic.
Thanks in advance...klorentz@bigpond.net.au

hickstick · December 29, 2007, 12:50:00 AM

yah doug...I been scoutin around for a 20 ton log splitter to convert...haven't found any at the right price. plus all that mumbo-jumbo about hydraulics and cycle rates and such gets my head spinnin...

Lin Rhea · December 29, 2007, 06:18:00 AM

I think you can get an idea of how to build it here: web page
Lin

Lin Rhea · December 29, 2007, 06:39:00 AM

Tippit,
You'll never know until you try. It looks good at this point. I would arc weld a handle of some sort on the uglyest end, have all your moves planned out, and get er done. The hardest part, besides getting the nerve to start, is allowing time to come to proper heat and resisting the urge to hit the billet after it cools below the proper heat.

As a confidence builder, before you do anything, grind a little on the outside of the billet and see for yourself that it's now "one" piece of steel. I'm talking about the edges of the laminations. You'll probably see the strata, but there should be no gaps.

Also, another thing that can fool you. When the billet is at it's largest cross section, you have to allow a little extra soak time to get the middle of the billet up to the same heat as the outside. The flux may be dancing and looking good on the outside, but if there is a shadow in the center, wait till it changes and the whole things is the same color and at heat.
I have recently started stacking my billets into odd numbered layers. That way the exact center of the billet is solid and the welds are moved, albiet only a little, away from the dead center to increase my chances of a good weld. You may have to sketch a billet on paper to understand what I mean. I did.
Lin

Doug Campbell · December 29, 2007, 01:03:00 PM

Ya lost me on that last part Lin, could you expand on it please?

If I remember right after the initial weld on Jeff's billet we cut it twice for three layers and another reweld... that's all we had time for if I remember right. I'm thinking there should be like 48 layers there, enough for a decent first damascus blade.... It's 1/8" - 1080 & .60" - 15N20 alternated.

This short term memory loss is a real pain

Lin Rhea · December 29, 2007, 01:56:00 PM

No problem. For instance, if you had even number of layers, say 4 layers. There will be a joint in the exact middle of the stack. Is this a problem, no, IF you get the heat right and soak it and let the middle of the billet come up to the same heat as the outside extremes of the billet. That, of course, is the goal. But, to add just a bit of insurance, I cut and stack in odd numbers. This moves the joints away from the exact dead center of the billit. Not by much, but the fact remains, I am increasing my odds of having a successfull weld. If you are strictly eyeballing it, be sure and watch the joints closest to the middle. Make sure the flux is acting the way it should there. The outer perimeters will take care of itself.
Lately I have been using a temperature probe thats fits into a small hole in the side of my forge. Knowing the exact temperature and watching the way the flux and the steel color acts helps a lot.
Lin

Gene Roberts · December 29, 2007, 02:03:00 PM

I don't know if anyone has asked yet,but I was wondering what you were going to make the blades out of.Oh,and by the way nice knife.

Auzoutdoor · December 29, 2007, 05:03:00 PM

Thats I top idea about odd numbers I had not thought of that.It has just come out of the etching and I am excited and will show a pic soon.This was cable damascus and it only had 6 strands so the patern in the steel in pretty corse but I still made a damasuc blade.woohoo.
PS.I dont see any hyjacking going on please everyone that has some input should feal free to do so.
Cheers KIM

Lin Rhea · December 29, 2007, 05:15:00 PM

Auzoutdoor,
I have been in my shop most of the day working up a billet. I've got 165 layers and then turned it 90 degrees and flattened it into a 3/8 X 1 1/4 bar. Tomorrow I plan on making another just like it and cutting both into lengths and restacking pieces from them into one large billet. I am hoping to get a couple of knives made from it. It will take a couple more days to get some results. I'm glad yours is working for you. I know that feelin.
Lin

Auzoutdoor · December 29, 2007, 05:50:00 PM

Here is quick pic of the blade so far.I see that there is alot more time involved in damascus when you see how long you have been working on your billet.Wow.
Cheers KIM

Dirty Bill · December 29, 2007, 05:56:00 PM

Well,it looks pretty good so far.

Did you know cable has a lot of different kinds of steel in it? I forget how many though. :rolleyes:

Lin Rhea · December 30, 2007, 06:41:00 AM

Kim,
Since I have so much invested in a damascus knife, I feel like I have to cut and grind each piece clean before restacking. This eats up some time, but allows me to do other things in between, like check the forums:). I also let the billet cool so I can handle it. I'll show you a picture of the pattern I'm going after.

Maybe you can see the pattern here. Lin

Auzoutdoor · December 30, 2007, 06:54:00 AM

I am sure it is all worth it Lin I look forward to seeing the results.I am learning so much about forge welding it blows my mind.I am doing it in a little gas forge I built myself out of plumbing fittings so it is even more rewarding when it works out for me.
Cheers KIM