HH bug got me ... Part One!

[HunterLawyer]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
archery, by nature, is far more subjective than objective.  

there are more than a few consistent, valid, accurate ways of shooting any stick bow.  

there is NO dictum that specifies the absolute need to shoot a bow with a particular type of form or aim - that would be elitist lunacy.

What Mr. DiStefano said!

[joevan125]

I was watching a used Wesely Special on the big auction and it brought as much as a new one. I'm going to order a 68in Wesely Special all black with white tips and a beaver tail grip.

Do you guys like the black HH bows or would you go with something else. Sometimes i really nees a PUSH when ordering a bow i have never owned.

Thanks

[joevan125]

Also a silver inlay of a deer and do they make takedowns.

[tadpole]

joevan125,  The black glass Hills are a thing of beauty.  You won't go wrong with that, I really like the black polished.

[joevan125]

Thanks tadpole, believe it or not i have only seen one HH bow. This 70yr old man from Alabama had it and said he grew up with Howard and he told me some great stories involving there shooting club.

This was when Howard moved back to Alabama. One day a compound shooter showed up youg and full of piss and vinegar and said something smart to Howard. Howard just smiled and took it like a real man.

Eventually the young man challenged Howard to a shoot off. They would take a plastic bottle top and put it on top of the target.

The shot was 20yds and when the young man walked down to the target just as soon as his hand left the bottle top Howard nailed it.

The young man was so mad at what he had done he packed up and left. The old man said Howard was a true character and funny as hell.

Joe Van

[Nate Steen .]

John g......the swing draw doesn't need to be alot...once you learn the concept you can adapt it to the situation at hand.  Hill didn't  swing the same as schulz for example.  And the swing can be very slow if necessary...but it always remains fluid.  And the shot sequence cadence includes the anchor and release...not just the draw.  There is no reason why a swing draw would turn you into a snap shooter.

[HunterLawyer]

Joe Van K, check out the Howard Hill Archery website for all options; I am pretty sure they can make you what you want.

[dragonheart]

Originally posted by sunset hill:
John g......the swing draw doesn't need to be alot...once you learn the concept you can adapt it to the situation at hand.  Hill didn't  swing the same as schulz for example.  And the swing can be very slow if necessary...but it always remains fluid.  And the shot sequence cadence includes the anchor and release...not just the draw.  There is no reason why a swing draw would turn you into a snap shooter.

 Just a touch sleepy today!      

[tradlongbow]

There's shots that we make that we practice all the time. We walk up to the target, the bow arm goes up, the string is pulled back, the arrow  comes to anchor, and it's released, hitting the target, and all we did was see the target. These shot's are the one's that we practice, we become naturally fluent when making these shot's because of "muscle memory".

Then there's shot's that we come to that are  distances that we don't practice, are they could be moving, are up or down hill. These are the shot's that we have to think about and calculate the shot, because we don't practice them.

When practicing, shoot all different distances, uphill, downhill, and moving targets. The more you practice, the more naturally fluent you will shoot the bow because you will develop muscle memory.

In many other forms of sports they practice so much that the movements become fluently natural, muscle memory.

For example:
In karate they continually practice kata's for form, and in a real fight everything is done in a split second, kicks, punches, and blocks using muscle memory.

Fireman routinely practice so in an emergency they will act quick knowing exactly what to do. They don't want to panic because they can't turn on there air-pack.

In law-enforcement, you need to practice drawing your weapon in a split second building muscle memory. I've seen people struggling to get their gun out of the holster because they don't practice.  

The Japanese archers practice form without a bow until they are ready. Then there given a bow without an arrow to practice the drawing and anchor technique.

If we want to be better, than we need to practice at all distances and movements routinely until we have developed muscle memory, naturally fluent moves.

Darren

[dragonheart]

I posted this on the history section, but somebody on this thread may know.  

I am curious when the plastic glue-on nock was developed.  How long has that been round?

I am sure that in Hill's early days he shot self nocks.  Anybody know the history?

Was Stotler the first?

[joevan125]

HunterLawyer i talked to Jason at HH and this is what we came up with.

Wesley Special
68in
Black Finish
White Horn Tips
Beavertail Grip
47-53@30

I cant wait!!!  

[tradlongbow]

joevan125-

That sounds like an awesome combination, what is the ETA?

Darren

[john gilbert]

Thank you Nate. I do know this, when I shoot the swing, it seems like I am so clear minded. I guess I have been somehow convinced that in order to have a shot sequence, you have to shoot set arm. Go figure, I  am not sure where I came up with that. Now, if I develop a smooth swing, with a cadence, I might have the best of both worlds. I will start to work on this, in a day or so, right after our deer season ends. Naw, I aint gonna wait, gotta go outside right now.

[Nate Steen .]

Darren....well said.  Good posts.

John...all great shooters have a repeatable shot cadence/form......the swing draw technique is one way of shooting the longbow.  There are many ways to skin this cat, so you need to find what works for you the best.  The reason for going into depth about this style is that there are very few people explaining how it works, and there are lots of people teaching other shooting methods.

[john gilbert]

I agree with you there Nate. This is going to take some reprogramming for me. Something I noticed though, shooting a bit ago. Actually I knew it, just hadnt given it much thought lately. When shooting for form, I go through my sequence. When I want to shoot like I am hunting, I burn a hole in the spot, and shoot. Seems like on the bale my acurracy is tops when I am doing that. When I shoot at game, I dont think I go through my sequence, as I can never remember doing it. So, form work, requires less concern with accuracy, as shooting to kill. Is this on the right train of thought Nate?

[mikebiz]

Originally posted by tradlongbow:
When one practices this way they build "muscle memory".
Darren

Darren I agree completely.  I mentioned "muscle memory" a few pages back when I was discussing Howard's split vision aiming technique.  Muscle memory puts my bowhand in the right spot "most" of the time.  Continued daily practice should get me in the yellow or kill zone damn near 100% of the time.  Say it with me guys. Practice, practice, practice.  

Here's what I wrote previously about muscle memory if you are interested.  By the way, great description of the process Darren.

 In Chapter 13 of "Howard Hill The Man and The Lengend" Craig Ekin says that Howard used split vision or secondary aiming as his sighting method. Basically it's described as substituting the tip of the arrow for your bow hand index finger pointing at the target. I find this a bit odd as Howard constantly stressed that the shooter should concentrate completely on "the spot" he/she wishes to hit with the arrow. I'm not sure if he actually ever saw the tip of the arrow or only the spot. In my opinion I feel that Howard relied extensively on muscle memory to duplicate shot after shot. After so much practice it would become second nature to gauge distance and "point" the bowhand accordingly.

[mikebiz]

Originally posted by joevan125:
HunterLawyer i talked to Jason at HH and this is what we came up with.

Wesley Special
68in
Black Finish
White Horn Tips
Beavertail Grip
47-53@30

I cant wait!!!    

joevan,

The back of my HH "Sirocco" has the satin (matte) black glass.  It is really sweet.  You'll love it.

As for your draw length are you positive that you will be drawing 30".  You're draw length may shorten quite a bit with a Hill-style bow.  Especially if you are going to shoot using Howard's technique.  

Just want to make sure you order what you "need" on top of what you want in a bow.  Good luck.

[HunterLawyer]

Originally posted by joevan125:
HunterLawyer i talked to Jason at HH and this is what we came up with.

Wesley Special
68in
Black Finish
White Horn Tips
Beavertail Grip
47-53@30

I cant wait!!!    

Now THAT is a nice bow!  

[Nate Steen .]

John,

when you are shooting at the bales, if you 'look' at the spot, while actually thinking about form, concentrating on form, you will be amazed how you can hit the spot without 'burning a hole' in it.   It's weird how it happens, but it is why I used the car driving analogy....we look at the road, keeping the car aimed between the lines, but we are 'thinking' about other things.

try it...just casually look at the center of a blank bale/box while you think about proper form/cadence.  I would be willing to bet that your arrows will group nicely in the middle without thinking about 'burning a hole'

[mikebiz]

IT'S HERE - DAVID MILLER "EXPEDITION"

All of you agonizing over that 8 month wait, here's a little teaser.  Sorry.  I will tell you that the wait will most definitely be worth it.  The Hill bow to end all Hill bows.  Shoots as sick as it looks.