HH bug got me ... Part One!

[2treks]

Bill Matlock. Built some really great bows.

[JCJ]

Originally posted by Kelly:
Guys, tell me how many pieces of bamboo are used in the CC/CV version? Id their actually a hollow space-maybe filled with glue- where the concave lams meets up with the convex lam?

My Miller split bamboo-no glass-the back is the rounded natural shape of bamboo. It has 4 lams total including the back.

There was a bowyer that used to live in Missouri, then moved to New Mexico and later had a stroke-think his first name was Bill? Anyway, one year awhile back at the Missouri Banquet he had built a D shape all bamboo longbow that consited of two lams of nodes on bamboo, basically glued up so both the back and belly were the natural rounded curve of bamboo with nodes on each piece like this (). Everyone was shooting that bow and wow, was that one ever a shooter. Never seen one like that before or since.

Kelly:

I build Tonkin bamboo split-cane fly rods. Have done so for many years.

Because of this I have a very good understaning of the material.

The outer surface of a culm of bamboo is not particularly consistent. There is almost always a slope up to the individual node rings on the outer surface of the culm and dips in the surface on either side of the node ring.

I would be curious to see how a bowyer is laminating multiple cores where one cores enamel (outer) side is bonded to the next cores pith (inner side.

I would be willing to bet there is some sanding/pressing involved otherwise it would be near impossible to get the surfaces to mate properly for a glue joint.

I have been buying and evaluating Hill bows for many years. At some point I plan to expand from building split-cane fly rods to building bamboo self-bows.

JCJ

[Overspined]

The cc/cv cut out seemed to show sanded and glued like ))) The nodes were sanded smooth and the lams married beautifully. Too expensive for me!  But very interesting and cool. I trust that if David says they are quite impressive, I believe him. I'm sure if he is at Kalamazoo this year, his booth will be busy! I don't remember him having a demo for anything but the old Tom.  Well, he had them but I don't think you could shoot them, that's my recollection anyway!

[JCJ]

Originally posted by Overspined:
The cc/cv cut out seemed to show sanded and glued like ))) The nodes were sanded smooth and the lams married beautifully. Too expensive for me!  But very interesting and cool. I trust that if David says they are quite impressive, I believe him. I'm sure if he is at Kalamazoo this year, his booth will be busy! I don't remember him having a demo for anything but the old Tom.  Well, he had them but I don't think you could shoot them, that's my recollection anyway!

The powerfibers of bamboo are in a layer (that varies in thikness depending on the quality of the individual culm) just under the enamel or outer skin.

These fibers are what give bamboo it steel like bending and resiliancy properties.

When we build a fly rod we try to preserve these powerfibers at all costs.

To do so we use proprietary heating and pressing of nodes and dips to get the the outer layers of the cane as consistent and flat as possible before sanding.

That way, when we take off the outer enamel we only go down to the point where we reach the very top layer of the powerfibers.

At this point going any deeper with our sanding begins to compromise the integrity and bending qualities of the material.

It would be informative to see a cross section of a concave/convex bow to see how much the sanding the builder has to do to achieve a conistent glue surface nbetween the cores.

[frank bullitt]

Yes, it's Matlock. Bill's bows were highly treasured.

Him and Jim Fetrow built and shared alot of bow building knowledge.

Also produced the hollow tail wood shafts.

[Overspined]

JCJ,

Miller brings a X section to his displays that I've seen and I want to be clear that I don't know what he does or doesn't do!  It shows a very nice glue line in each of the 3 or 4 lams. I am certainly not an expert on his process and it sounds like you are quite knowledgeable about bamboo. He would surely discuss it with you, he loves to talk bows, tillering, and design. He's a cool guy (aren't all Hill fanatics?).

[ChrisM]

Dang almost saved up enough money for a miller and you have to go and show one.  Now his wait list is gonna get longer!!!!

[Molson]

Miller will be at Kzoo this year?

[30coupe]

Okay, I am now officially part of the addiction! My Shelton arrived this morning. I posted a couple pics here:

http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=111681

I wish my camera skills could do the cherry veneers justice. They remind me of the fancy yew I had on a Kota TD longbow I had. I love the look of yew and these wild cherry veneers Steve puts on are just as beautiful if not more so.

I'm still figuring the bow out, but it seems to like 55-60 POC with 145 to 160 grains up front. It wants a stiffer spine than my 55# Mahaska for sure. That one is perfectly content with 50-55 cedars or .500 spine carbons. I don't think the 500s will cut it with the Shelton if I decide to use them. I'd have to go too light.

The Shelton is unbelievably quiet with no string silencers and a fairly heavy arrow. I don't have anything over 10 ggp right at the moment, but I think that is what it wants. The wind is howling like the dickens here today, so I can only shoot in spurts before my nose and eyes start to water and my fingers get cold. It's also tough to stay steady with the wind gusts knocking me around. Too much fun to stay inside for long though. I'm warmed up now, so I'm gonna go fling a few more.

[3Under]

"Mr. Mudd" You do realize that you're a ""bad"" role model for us  likewize weak willed individuals like yourself!!

I spent a half hour today talking with David Miller this a.m. Not only is he "bowyer knowlegable", he is also a walking-talking Hill/Schultz history book. He not only answered every question I presented, but he also put the bug into me for one his longbows. Woe is me!!(LOL)!

[Overspined]

3under, they are awesome

[Overspined]

[SactoBowman]

Originally posted by 3Under:
"Mr. Mudd" You do realize that you're a ""bad"" role model for us  likewize weak willed individuals like yourself!!

I spent a half hour today talking with David Miller this a.m. Not only is he "bowyer knowlegable", he is also a walking-talking Hill/Schultz history book. He not only answered every question I presented, but he also put the bug into me for one his longbows. Woe is me!!(LOL)!

He must have just hung up after speaking to you when he took my call.  Great guy to talk to and as you said a fountain if knowledge on bows.  I couldn't resist and placed an order for one I his Old Toms.  Can't wait!!!!

[Ben Maher]

David is a real gent and buids a fine fine bow .

[Mudd]

"Mr. Mudd" You do realize that you're a ""bad"" role model for us likewise weak willed individuals like yourself!!

I can't take any responsibility for others who have no more will power than I do...lol

But this is one time I am glad that I caved and got on Mr. Millers' list.

God bless,Mudd

[Ari]

G'day guys, I saw Jesses hawk and it reminded me I owe him some pictures of my replacements sage. I dunno if you guys remember but a a few month back I posted a picture of a new sage David had made me, sadly that bow developed a crack and later died. Well David replaced that bow with a few added changes.

Any how here it is:

   

It's 70#@28", I had David reduce the handle even smaller than the last one and its a great fit. He also did the rounded belly this time which I think looks great.
 
   

The black backing is not fiberglass but what David called "trunk fibber"(vulcanized paper)and is on all his natural bows 65# and over.


This bow seems very smooth, I'm not sure but maybe It is because this bow started with a lot more string follow than the other sage. 2.5" seems to be were its at now.

Mr. Mudd when I suggested that you find a bow that you can identify with and stick with it and then said that I could not believe that you did not have one of those yet, I was really referring to myself that I could not believe that I did not have one yet as well. The list is too long for me now, so I will have to be happy with the yew stuff I got. No bendy round bamboo lams for me, my wife has to draw the line somewhere, I guess, and this is where she drew it.  Pretty sure she is right when she pointed out if what I have is not good enough nothing is.  Always wanted one of those, John Schulz quit offering them before I could get my order years back.

[swampthing]

When you compare an all bamboo bow to a glass bow, you will notice that the all bamboo bow is, gentler in the hand, quieter, and a mite slower. It is like a smooth thrust at the shot, compared to a snap with a glass bow.
An all bamboo, with C/C lams, will be as fast and in some cases faster than a flat lam. glass bow.
Now that I have shot them both..... I will stay with all bamboo.

[flint kemper]

Ari, what kind of string were you using on the bow that developed a crack? The one that came with the bow from David or another one?

[Ari]

Yes it was one of Davids strings that came with the bow. I think it was just a flaw in the wood that caused the bow to break.