HH bug got me ... Part One!

[swampthing]

Some people advocate the bare shaft shot. Basically adjusting spine till it come's out of the bow straight.  
I would say in your case, you are torquing the bow. By upping the spine to counter the torque you get a shaft to come out good.
 Try this simple test when you get a minute.
Try a 55# shaft again with a 125g tip. and dacron, or if using FF use 60#'ers. Now when you draw the bow keep the bow arm bent THROUGHOUT the draw. Do not push the bow towards the target, instead, just mearly lift it up as you draw. Do not try to expand your draw, do not do any thing that allows you to "get more inches" in your draw, just draw to a comfortable straight back anchor to where you feel you have equal tension going towards and away from the target. Again, don't try to exaggerate anything this is just a test. Let it fly. If they shoot pretty straight, with/with out fletching you did not torque the shot and that is what the problem is when you "open'er up" to 29," torque.
I like that earlier saying about, "put up your dukes."  
Target style I'll pull'er 29.5" Hill style I pull'er 26.5"
I'll take a slower arrow going straight than a faster arrow out sidestepping.

[tradlongbow]

A few years back Howard Hill Archery started offering Carbon Limbs due to customer requests. If you go to Dick Wrightman's website he did some comparison shooting with a Hill longbow with carbon in the limbs.

We all know that when fiberglass came out Howard used it in his bows and continued to use it.

***Poll***
I want to know your opinion:

Do you think that Howard Hill would have used carbon in his limbs?


Darren

[tradlongbow]

Yes, I think Howard would have tried carbon because he designed longbows, broadheads, gloves and quivers.

There is an article that I read in a Popular Science magazine when Howard was in his 20's where he designed a short flight bow that was operated with a spring.

Darren

[Canyon]

Knew I would get a lot of great input. Most of this I have thought about. So to answer some of the ideas.
There is no wedge on the rest.
I am shooting a 3 bundle 12 strand B-50 string with no silencers that I twisted up.
I am drawing a solid 29 inch with my bow arm is bent slightly throughout the draw.
I have tried going all the way down in ally to a 40 lb spine arrow with 160 heads and things just get continually worse.
I don't believe the bow is heavier than marked in fact it may be light.
Torquing could be possible as the takedown sleeve drives me crazy with the grip never feeling right compared to my Falcons narrow semi locator. But if I am torquing I am consistent.

[tradlongbow]

Originally posted by Canyon:
Torquing could be possible as the takedown sleeve drives me crazy with the grip never feeling right compared to my Falcons narrow semi locator. But if I am torquing I am consistent.

Canyon-

I don't now if your right or left handed but if your right handed, you would be torquing the bow to the left and the arrow would go left.

If you were left handed, you would be torqing the bow to right and the arrows would go right.

Darren

I wonder, Canyon, does the bow display the same symptoms when someone else shoots it?  I have a hard time believing that anyone could consistently torque a bow. Although it does seem like the string is coming towards the bow like the bow would have a deeper than center sight window. I think it would be an advantage to have a bow that preferred stiffer arrows.  Quite often, for most with wood arrows, the quest is to find how low one has to go in spine.

[Canyon]

Pavan, I agree about not being that consistent with the torque. I may have my son shoot it some to see if it shows that it likes stiff arrows for him.

One of the things I have not explored is that the string may track off center, giving the effect of being more centershot. With both ends set into the take-down handle individually if one was off could it give this effect?

Originally posted by Kelly:
Guess there is a long tube from Idaho on its way East to my place.      


Oh yes, there will be pictures to follow after it arrives.        Too bad I won't be able to shoot it until the snow goes away and it warms up-have no place indoors.    :(  

Hey Kelly....lookin for those pics dude!   :p

One would think that if the string tracks straight on the limb and the takedown system is tight that off tracking would not be the case. But with more parts than can be more variables. I shot a takesown sleeved bow once, I felt compelled to get it deep into my hand and put some pressure on it, the roundness gave me a feeling of mistrust in my aim. I guess that was because I had been shooting a very flat handled bow prior to that.

[Buckhorn47]

Ontario Longbow: Nice bow! Congrats! pleasure to have another one north of the border.

Canyon: I am not an expert, however have shot HH style bows a long, long, time. I have a Big Five which exhibited the traits you speak of and compared to another similarly styled bow of the same weight shooting the same arrows, it was disappointing when I had to use different arrows for both. What I did to remedy mine was to raise the brace height and then change my hand position just a bit by rolling the knuckles of the bow hand around the bow a little more. This caused the bow arm to bend at the elbow a little more to accommodate the grip. Not only did this help the arrow straighten quicker - it really quietened the bow which I was accustomed to with the other non-HH (Rocky Mountain) bow. Now I shoot both bows to the same spot with the same arrows as long as I remember to change my hand position just a "tad" to accommodate the Big Five.

Originally posted by Bud B.:
A little HH Big 5 stumpin' this morning in the Uwharries.

 

Bud, thanks for the snowless moment!!  It's a different winter up here in Northern Michigan.

[Overspined]

Canyon, now we are all waiting to see that bow in the classifieds     :D    

I saw some of Steve's bows from Northern Mist at the Kalamazoo expo this weekend, he had some of the classics with an elm that looked like snake skins. It was really cool. He had them of a few different stains if I remember right. I should have taken a picture.

Did anyone shoot the Shrew Hill in kzoo this weekend? I looked at them, but I am not in the market for another bow right now.  That grip is cool, and I do wonder how it feels when shooting.

[Bud B.]

No problem Tony.

Mosquitos were out while I was taking that photo. It's been unusually warm here for Jan. I'll be back out tomorrow morning with the Howard Hill.

[Overspined]

I had a funny thing happen the other day. I have a relatively new redman, and I wasn't happy with the grip. It had kind of a slightly asymmetrical oval shape, almost like a racetrack I guess.  I didn't really enjoy shooting it so I sent it back and had it reshaped to kind of an egg shape, and it seemed to change the way the bow shoots, for the better!  All of my Hill style bows have the thinner, egg shaped x-section grip, and I am unsure why, but the bow seems a lot smoother and just like I would expect it to.  I am a junkie for that shape of grip, maybe other shapes make me torque the bow unknowingly...

Has anyone had this kind of feeling about grip shapes on their Hill style bows?

[WESTBROOK]

Matt, I shot the ShrewHill saturday. Shot real nice, the only lefty was a 66", a little short for me but stayed smooth out to my almost 30" draw.

I liked the size of the grip but not so much the sharp wedge. My hands are big and skinny, not much cushion, so I prefer my grip a little more round on the back.

Overall, I'd buy one in a second, soon as I round up some cash.

LaClair got a REAL nice lookin' bow this weekend, you guys need to harass him for the pics. I wont say what it is..dont wanna spoil it.

Eric

[tradlongbow]

Originally posted by WESTBROOK:
Matt, I shot the ShrewHill saturday. Shot real nice,
I liked the size of the grip but not so much the sharp wedge. Eric

Eric-

I'm sure Ron can make that same grip rounded instead of the sharp wedge. Craig Ekin makes the same thin grip and it's rounded in the palm, he call's it a "Racetrack Grip".

Darren

[tradlongbow]

Originally posted by Overspined:
I had a funny thing happen the other day. I have a relatively new redman, and I wasn't happy with the grip. It had kind of a slightly asymmetrical oval shape, almost like a racetrack I guess.  I didn't really enjoy shooting it so I sent it back and had it reshaped to kind of an egg shape, and it seemed to change the way the bow shoots, for the better!  All of my Hill style bows have the thinner, egg shaped x-section grip, and I am unsure why, but the bow seems a lot smoother and just like I would expect it to.  I am a junkie for that shape of grip, maybe other shapes make me torque the bow unknowingly...

Has anyone had this kind of feeling about grip shapes on their Hill style bows?

I prefer the thin "Racetrack Grip", where the thickness is only about 1". Once I had a grip that was fuller on the sides and it caused me to torque the bow. I find the thin grip helps me keep the bow pointed in the direction of the target.


Darren

[toddster]

I shot the "shrew hill" at kally too.  overall nice bow.  I am use to more of a thick grip, but the shape and design was ok.  Felt vibration in my hand though.  Shot a Bechler "union jack" too which impressed me, of course Steves bows are always good.  Didn't see Miller lonbows there, like they said.  Over all expo good, bought a wool jacket from classic bowman.

[tradlongbow]

Toddster-

I've heard good things about the Union Jack, How's the grip shaped?

Darren

[Overspined]

He varies the grip on the union jack bows too.

David Miller was there, but he displays with the Hill bow collection by the flint knappers.  I don't think you can shoot his bows, except maybe the Old Tom. He had quite a few there  to see.  He does't bring bows for sale because he says his customers who have paid deserve their bows before he makes stock bows to sell.  The bows he had were customer bows awaiting pick up....such as by L Lucido, who got a real neat one!

I drooled over many of them.