HH bug got me ... Part One!

[Rossco7002]

They're sending them pre-cut. I asked for them to set the arrows up for me as I've never tuned this type of bow before and wanted to have the set-up as streamlined as possible.

A 125 broadhead on an insert could be over 165 total.  2016s could be the correct if your draw will be an actual 27 and the total length is 28.5". It sounds to me that it would be right on the edge of getting stiff if your shot comes out soft. A 1918 would come in nicer, it is just a tad softer than the 2016. Hard to find, however.

[mikebiz]

Originally posted by sunset hill:
 

I think that Pete George needs to bypass PA and head straight to NJ.  Didn't know that Pete made any no glass bows.  That's one sweet looking semi-long.

[Rossco7002]

Pavan,

That sounds encouraging man, thanks. Looking at all the arrow charts and the DSC the arrow comes up stiff every time but there was no confusion when I was talking to Craig and Jason. Originally I thought they'd confused me for a guy ordering a 55lbs bow or something but they didn't. They're gonna know their product better than anyone and what arrow it likes so perhaps I should have some faith. Jason did say it was the exact set-up he shoots after all....

What they call 45 at 28" may just be more like 45 at 27".  If you were to use 125 screw in field point on those arrows, that would be way stiff. A good hard release and a straight back follow through can cure some of the over spine symptoms that some Hill shooters have. Lots of folks tend to have shorter draws than they think they will have,  or are willing to admit to, with Hill bows.  At 54 pounds at 261/4" with my yew model I shoot 1918s cut to 27" with 200 grains total up front. 145 grain field points are okay, but with that setup, the 1916s with the target points behave better all the way to net length for me. I would hate to tell that you have to shoot more than your natural draw length with that longbow. To be honest, I have found that cedars have a wider spine tolerance with Hill bows than aluminum arrows. I would have ordered the woodies as my first set of arrows to shoot with a Hill, if it is your first experience with them.

Nate, sounds like you don't have the faith in that Pete George that you do in your own bow. You should really pass it along to someone that has, oh let's say, a 26 plus draw and a bunch of tapered cedar shafts that will fit it real nice. I would hate to see you get excited and over draw it or something like that. I can afford priceless, it's when things get priced that I have a problem.

[Rossco7002]

So you're thinking if I pull a true 27" I should be good?

I am saying could be, but if you were to come to my house and ask me for arrows, I would have 40-45s cedars with 125 grains and 160 grains to try first. Then I would try 45-50s with both heads next. We would know what your draw length was exactly at the time and I could make a prediction what it would settle at.  Also, your arrows would be no longer than they needed to be, I like to draw broadheads until they contact my finger.

[Rick Butler]

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread but it's getting dangerously close to page two.  So back up.

[Rik]

Moderators, Rik needs help!

I jsut had an old floppy disk returned to me from an office that was cleaned out, and in addition to some really old work files, it had an old WordPerfect file with the text from an article Scott Toll submitted to me for Instinctive Archer Magazine. The article is about a visit to Howard Hill Archery and an interview with Craig, plus a lot of history about the company.

I would like to share the text with you, but am not sure how best to do that.

I have made an 85 kb PDF of the file. Is there a way that I can provide you all a link to it, similar to how we use Photobucket? I am guessing that pasting seven pages of text into a post here is a no-no?

You are right, Rick, trouble is I have been through this many times with new longbow shooters in person. I am never happy when I leave someone confused or uncertain what to do with their longbow set ups, when in person the solution is quite often a simple one. I have however, seen about 10 to 1 of new Hill shooters going too stiff in the arrow spines when one considers what their actual draw etc. ends up being. For the new kids on the Howard Hill game, we must give them a break as they have their own questions and concerns to work out from scratch.  
My question is: it is a sunny day with light west winds, low humidity, temps in the mid 40s, the bucks are running and I got nothing to do. So, is this a yew day, bamboo and juniper day, bamboo day, or yew and bamboo day?  So many bows, man, I just had the one like the old days so I would not have this confusion.

[Nate Steen .]

Pavan,  sounds like you need to spread the joy around, give out a few bows and stick to one bow so you can end the uncertainty and frustration you are going through....    

Rossco....I'm guessing you've never owned or shot a Hillstyle longbow before.  A word of advice for you.....
don't be in a hurry to get perfect arrow flight just yet.  Get to learning your bow first.  It will shoot differently than what you are used to in your other bows.  How you grip the bow matters along with other nuances and the sum of these things will make the bow shoot better for you.  Learn to shoot the bow and then you can see how the arrows fly and if they need adjusting.  There really is no really good reason to have arrows much longer than your draw unless you shoot carbons, and even when I shot carbons, they were cut to the length of my woodies...    Many, many times a Hill bow has been shipped to a new Hillstyle shooter, and that newbie, not knowing how to shoot the bow correctly, doesn't get great arrow flight immediately and blames the arrows, bow, string, whatever and goes back to his recurve/RD/DR bow because that is what he knows, and the Hill bow gets sold.  What a shame.  Get to know the individual characteristics of your new bow.  Shoot it enough to get used to it before making any adjustments to the arrows.  Craig and Jason have been shooting this style of longbow a long time.  They are giving you advice based on their personal experience.  Your experience with this style of bow is new, so give it some time.

[rraming]

Slow down, I'm on page 59-I'll never catch up!

[GRS]

Nate, good point on getting used to the Hill style bow before getting serious with arrow choice. My question to all of you long time Hill style shooters is: how do you go about choosing arrows? Do you get technical and paper tune or bareshaft tune? Or, do you do as I did and simply start with a couple of spine weights in the range you suspect, and go with the one that gives the best visual flight as well as hitting where you look with both field points and broadheads? I tend to bareshaft aluminums for recurves, but with cedars for the Hills, I just did what we always did years ago. It seemed to work fine. Haven't been able to bring myself to trying any aluminuns yet. Nothing wrong with aluminums, I'm just enjoying shooting wood again. Thanks in advance for sharing your tuning methods.

Gerald

[Ben Maher]

I have been shooting woodies and alloys for a fair while . I just match my arrows spine wise to the bow weight [ 50-55's for a 50# bow ] . I tend to use bigger heavier broadheads but I cut my arrows close to "net " length . I do the same for alloys ...

[Rik]

My arrow-selection system is easy.

It's also OLD SCHOOL.

Go to an archery shoot, or a big bin full of variously spined arrows.

Pick an arrow of of someone's back quiver or out of the bin.

Shoot the arrow.

Then keep doing the same thing with other arrows, until you find an arrow that flies absolutely perfectly.

Determine the spine of that arrow  (either by asking the owner or by testing on a spine tester).

VOILLA!  You now know what spine of arrow flies perfectly out of your Hill bow.

[ChrisM]

I'm just now getting good enough to really start fine tuning arrows.  I believe that the slower reurn speed of wood is better for a Hill.  Just gotta get some new shafts as my POC are dying fast.  Probably gonna have to get some already made as time is a premium with kids and work.  Have found some for only $20 more than the supplies will cost me. Thinkin fir with no stain just white cap with natural barred feathers and white nock.

[mikebiz]

Rossco, I'd be willing to bet that if you draw a true 27" with most bows your draw length will decrease by 1-2" with a Hill style bow and the Hill shooting method.  I wouldn't freak out too much yet.  This stuff is A LOT of trial and error.  That said listen to the long time Hill shooters here.  They've been through that stuff before.  Patience is a virtue.  I don't have much of it, so I reserve it all for my Hill bows.  Just ask my girlfriend   :D

[ChrisM]

Rossco i drew 27.5 with my recurve and draw a solid 26 with my hill.

[Rossco7002]

It's interesting how draw lengths can vary from bow to bow. I shoot a Toelke Whip with a low grip and Craig was of the opinion that I would likely stay the same or go up in draw length as the straight grip on his bows will push my hand away from the back of the bow. I already shoot with a canted, heel down style but don't plan on changing to the swing draw. I could easily see why guys shooting high pistol grips on a recurves could loose some length though.

Thanks for the insight Nate, very much appreciated.