Chisel style heads

[BUCKY]

I've had good luck with my 200 grain two blade Muzzy Phantoms but I've decided to try a chisel style head this year. I need 150 or better and I've found three. I found the heavy heads are popular with xbow people. I'm going with a head called the Boltcutter made by Excalibur xbows. They are 150grain 1 1/16 cutting diameter. Muzzy and Thunderhead also put out a heavy head. Anybody else using this style?

I used to use Thunderhead 125's all the time. I am a very sharpening challenged individual (I can't hardly sharpen a butter knife without my KME knife sharpener).

My thinking was that I would much rather have a very sharp chisel point BH than a not so sharp two-blade head.

Thanks to the KME, I now shoot GK Silverflame XL's and love them.

Bisch

[JamesKerr]

Those style heads will kill game just as dead as any of the rest of them.

[CheyenneFoote]

I have used the 125gr Phantoms and the Muzzy 90gr four blade and have taken deer with both.I think the 90's penatrated better.Go figure. Alot of the Muzzy guy's are Tradational bow hunters and only use the Chisel tips. I use the 100gr brass inserts to bring the tip weight up.

[KentuckyTJ]

Sure they will kill. There was a video that used a deer hide and several type broadheads (including a chisel point) on an arrow for a penetration test. The guy would have the arrow pointing upward and grab the deer hide with both hands and try to pull it down onto the broadhead. That really opened my eyes to penetration. Hope someone still has that and can post a link.

[Rob W.]

This one Tom?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpHpVR5SUX8&feature=player_embedded

[Goshawkin]

Originally posted by KentuckyTJ:
Sure they will kill. There was a video that used a deer hide and several type broadheads (including a chisel point) on an arrow for a penetration test. The guy would have the arrow pointing upward and grab the deer hide with both hands and try to pull it down onto the broadhead. That really opened my eyes to penetration. Hope someone still has that and can post a link.

Only problem I have with that test is that it leaves out the speed factor of the arrow. I can't push a car through the side of a house,but if I crash into it at 60 mph,I'm pretty sure I'm going through!

[BUCKY]

I agree Nick.

[magnus]

Just a thought wouldn't the pressure from him pushing simulate the speed of an arrow? Force is force.

[BUCKY]

I don't think he's pushing as fast as I'm shooting.

[bigbadjon]

The video didn't say the other heads wouldn't penetrate game, but I do think it demonstates that coc heads are more efficient penetrators overall. My dad shot modular Satellite heads for years and they certainly worked.

[Looper]

Years ago, I tried the Muzzy's. I used them for a while with a compound and thought I'd try the with my longbows.  They worked great with the compound, not so much with the longbows. I shot 3 deer in one season with them, and while they did kill, the penetration was awful.

With the Zwickeys, I consistently got two holes, even shooting on quartering shots. On broadside shots, the arrows would zip right through.  The first deer I shot with the Muzzy's was a 2.5 year old buck. When he ran off after I hit him, I thought I'd hit his shoulder bone on the way in, as most of the arrow was still hanging out of him on the entry side.

He did end up dying within about 50 yards, though. I did get both lungs, but it didn't come out the other side.  The next two deer I shot were does, and I did get complete penetration, but just barely. I decided to go back to the Zwickeys after that for big game. That was with a lemonwood bow, pulling around 50-55@30". The Muzzy's were on an aluminum shaft and the Zwickey's were on poplar shafts.

My Dad and I also did a test on a big boar hog he shot with a .22. I shot it with my compound setup (Browning Mirage Hunter 90, 65@29, overdraw, aluminum arrows weighing 400 grain, maybe less; my lemonwood bow with the poplar arrows and Zwickeys, weighing around 550 grains; and one of my hickory self bows (around 60@30), trade points, and hickory shafts weighing around 850-900 grains.

The self bow with the trade points penetrated the most, punching all the way through both of the shields. The arrows almost came all the way out. The Zwickeys from the lemonwood bow, also punched two holes, but the arrow stayed in him, about equal amounts in and out.  The compound with the muzzy's only got about 6-8 inches total penetration. I screwed on a 100 grain magnus tip and did get two holes, about like the lemonwood bow got.

It was a big hog, too, with thick shields. I took some polaroids of the whole thing. I'll see if I can dig them up.

We figured that the compound was shooting twice the speed of the selfbow. I do believe a much heavier arrow would have helped in the penetration department with the Muzzy, but I really believed they are meant to be shot with much higher velocity than can be generated with a traditional bow.  

If you think about it, there is a reason chisel points aren't very commonly used among traditional bowhunters, other than on fish, or small game (they make a superb squirrel head). It's not because we oppose the idea, it's because they don't perform as well.

Don't take this as me saying don't use them. Use what you want. I just thought I'd pass on some personal experience and maybe save you a long tracking job. At any rate, if you do use them, I'd like to see if your results are the same as mine.

[fnshtr]

Many things to take into consideration. How heavy is the bow? How heavy an arrow? Are we talking deer sized game or bigger, tougher animals (like elk or moose)?

For my set up I prefer the COC heads. JMO and preference.

Like looper said; use what you want and let us know how it works out.

[BUCKY]

45# Bow 470 grain arrow. I'd be hunting just whitetails.

[Goshawkin]

I killed a bunch of deer with 3 blade muzzys and Thunderheads,but I was shooting heavy recurves(67-78lbs) and heavy arrows. I'd say I had 80% pass throughs and those that didn't go all the way through,went through the near shoulder and stuck into the far. I don't think I'd use chisel points out of your setup. If you get a perfect hit,I'd bet you'll get a pass through. But if you hit the shoulder/heavy bone you might have problems.I think the 2 blades do penetrate better,I just don't think that the "push test" is the same as an arrow shot from a bow into an animal.

[fnshtr]

Again... this is just my opinion, but that seems a little light (both bow poundage and arrow weight) for shooting the chisel type heads. I would shoot the COC BHs simply because of my  increased confidence in their effectiveness.

When I hunted with a compound I used Thunderheads, wasps and other replaceable blade heads and they all did a fine job on whitetails and a bear. I was also shooting 60-70 lbs. with 400-450 grain arrows.

Since going trad I have always used the COCs and have had great success, even shooting a relatively light bow with a heavy arrow on elk.

Good luck!

[BUCKY]

Sounds like I will stick with my 2 blade Muzzy Phantoms. Thanks everybody.

[manitou1]

Also, leatherized hide is MUCH tougher than fresh hide.

[wapitirod]

I used the Muzzy 100gr to 145gr in compounds but now that I'm back to traditional equipment I'm using my stockpile of good ole Razorheads.