Single Bevel Broadheads and Rotation

TxAg · November 03, 2012, 06:27:00 PM

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=5umxVy7uhLM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D5umxVy7uhLM

I found this single bevel sharpening video. Looks great.

Brad Arnett · November 04, 2012, 02:44:00 PM

Well the rotation is definately there. Here are entrance and exit pics of a Centaur right bevel Big Game Head.

The entrance in the hide is almost horizontal.

You can see here that the blade has rotated some while going through the entrance side chest. It is the hole on the right, the left is not a hole just some clotted blood.

Exit side chest is vertical so you can see that it rotated more while going through the lungs/heart. Actually if you look at it close you can see through the hole and what you see on the other side is the entrance. Very easy to see the rotation.

Here is the exit side hide and its almost horizontal again.

Before I cut this buck up I thought the arrow stopped spinning as the hide side exit and entrance were basically on the same plane. After pulling the hide off it was very evident that wasn't the case and the broadhead was rotating on its way through.

FarmerMarley · November 05, 2012, 12:59:00 PM

Thanks for the photos. Very illuminating!

PCF · November 05, 2012, 03:24:00 PM

This discussion has raised another question for me. Will a 3" broadhead rotate more than say a 2 1/2" head?

Steve O · November 05, 2012, 05:52:00 PM

Well, I am not going to dust off any old textbooks for that...

I do firmly believe a longer broadhead will result in a better blood trail because there is more effective cutting area.

FarmerMarley · November 05, 2012, 09:53:00 PM

Interesting question...The width and the size of the bevel face seem like they might influence the degree of rotation.

I personally still want to hear from someone who has shot turkey with a single bevel. Just curious like that I guess...and cause turkey is the next thing I get to hunt.

Sage Custom · November 06, 2012, 10:23:00 AM

I started hunting with Abowyer brown bears this year. So far I've taken only one deer. I didn't see any evidence of the "L" shaped cut, even though I hit high and far back with a liver only shot. The broad head did rotate as promised. That being said, the deer went 15 yards and laid down and in 10 minutes it was over. I would have sent another arrow into it but had a lot of brush between us. Would a Simmons shark or a 3 blade done any better? Maybe if it had a wider cutting width being as I didn't hit any bone.
As far as using a single bevel for turkey, I wouldn't do it. Single bevel's claim to fame is penetration. How much penetration do you need on a turkey? Anything over 12" is over kill. A tree shark or Snuffer would be better, IMO.

dink · November 06, 2012, 11:08:00 AM

i am using a single bev battle axe this year best of both big head and single bev yet to kill a deer but devastated a yote last wk with it made a bigger whole than my go 2 heads snuffer 160 and 145s hope to get a deer though really want to see the effect

Brock · November 06, 2012, 12:38:00 PM

I may be mistaken but the bevel is what impacts rotation not the head size....so more surface area may restrict the rotation as it is putting more surface area against the bone/muscle.....like much easier to spin a wheel with 1/4inch vanes than one with 1 inch vanes as they have more resistance.

I am sure that will be the next big round of discussions...to be followed closely by whether they are sealed in paint, teflon or other materials...and whether weight of head increases or decreases rotation......

Tajue17 · November 06, 2012, 12:51:00 PM

I believe in Matching the fletch to the bevel but a good friend of mine in NH said he hit a deer with RH bevel head this week and used Left bevel fletching,,, he said the broadhead still rotated to the right going with the bevel upon inmpact,,, has anyone ever tried this and noticed the head will indeed follow the bevel at impact??

Brock · November 06, 2012, 03:04:00 PM

I think it would follow the bevel impact and believe from reading the matching fletch to bevel is to ensure maximum efficiency as once the arrow broadhead enters the animal the fletching stops having any impact and the bevel takes over......though might be some loss of effectiveness as the energy transfer reverses the direction.

I doubt it is really enough to make a huge difference but sure Ashby has tried it and has something about it.

Steve O · November 06, 2012, 04:12:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Brock:
I doubt it is really enough to make a huge difference but sure Ashby has tried it and has something about it.

Correct. I believe it was 2-3% less for fletch opposite bevel. When you consider the testing medium and measurement accuracy, that comes to realistically nothing. But if you are doing things from scratch and want every possible advantage, why not.

TxAg · November 06, 2012, 05:05:00 PM

I couldn't stand it any longer. I bought some Grizzlies and steel adapters to play around with the single bevel thing.

FarmerMarley · November 06, 2012, 09:31:00 PM

QuoteI couldn't stand it any longer. I bought some Grizzlies and steel adapters to play around with the single bevel thing.

Haha...I'm in the same boat admittedly! Been messing around with new BH setups all day long since I got the day off.

I can't imagine putting opposite wing fletch from BH bevel on my hunting arrow! I get way too perfectionist when it comes to things like that...specially since I'm not shootin 65#s or whatever. I need all the juice I can get.

Fastltz · November 06, 2012, 09:43:00 PM

I was swayed by the sb debate and tried some steel force 225 grain heads. They were very sharp and flew great. Shot a 6 point a little high and back hit only flesh. The deer ran about 75 yards and holed up in a creek and stayed. I came back about an hour latter and he was mine. The only complaints i had were, from a 60 pound sage with an arrow weight of 700 I got very poor penetration, and as i only hit flesh the edges were dulled badly and even tweaked. I still like the idea but after reading a post from magnus about making a sb stinger he said that they tried it and have ditched the idea after finding out that the best weights for sb were 175 and up and the edges had to be hardened to much.Still want to try some again some day but for now am sticking to stingers!

Tajue17 · November 07, 2012, 05:03:00 AM

you need a thick head I think for this to work properly,, I use abowyers they are thick and hair popping sharp from the package after stropped ..

Fanto · November 07, 2012, 05:18:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by FarmerMarley:
Ok, so that Ashby presentation on YOutube sure convinced me of single bevels effectiveness. I'm planning on using them for my pig hunts this winter. However, since I'm getting ready for some turkey hunting coming up soon I'm wondering about 2 blade single bevel BHs for Turkeys? Ashby didn't do tests on turkeys did he (or ostriches in Africa?!)

Is there an anatomical difference with birds (turkey in particular) that would change the balance between which head is more preferred for consistent lethal shots?

Previously I have been planning on using some VPA 250gn 3 blades or big Snuffers, subscribing to the idea that more cutting area on turkey gives you a bigger margin of error for hitting the small vitals. I have been reading through Guru and other turkey hunter's posts trying to plan my setup and up until now I have been pretty set on 3 blades. But maybe the single bevels rotation, "s" shaped hole, superior penetration, and the crazy "starburst" tissue damage effect will compensate for fewer blades?

What do you all think? How does this single bevel stuff apply to gobblers?

I have read Dr Ashby's reports. single bevel broad heads are only 1 of his 10 recommendations. Regarding turkeys, Dr. Ashby concentrated on using 1000gr arrows from his 95lb bow, on 1500 pound trophy Bull Asiatic water buffalo which have ribs upto 7/8" thick which need to be penetrated. Dr. Ashby noted that his recommendations really did not apply to sub-deer sized game.

regards
damian

Fanto · November 07, 2012, 05:20:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by Steve O:

QuoteOriginally posted by Brock:
I doubt it is really enough to make a huge difference but sure Ashby has tried it and has something about it.
Correct. I believe it was 2-3% less for fletch opposite bevel. When you consider the testing medium and measurement accuracy, that comes to realistically nothing. But if you are doing things from scratch and want every possible advantage, why not. [/b]

more like 60%

FarmerMarley · November 07, 2012, 11:16:00 AM

Thanks for the input fanto,
I guess I was just curious...Especially after reading about the effect of the single bevel on soft tissue.
I'm sticking to my VPA 250 gn 3 blades for my upcoming turkey hunts. But will be testing some ABowyers brown bears on pigs.

TxAg, where did you get your grizzlies from? I ordered some from 3Rivers like 2 months ago and they are still backordered! IT looks like the right wing ones are in stock though. Maybe that explains people mixing and matching BH and fletch orientation....

TxAg · November 07, 2012, 11:47:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by FarmerMarley:
Thanks for the input fanto,
I guess I was just curious...Especially after reading about the effect of the single bevel on soft tissue.
I'm sticking to my VPA 250 gn 3 blades for my upcoming turkey hunts. But will be testing some ABowyers brown bears on pigs.

TxAg, where did you get your grizzlies from? I ordered some from 3Rivers like 2 months ago and they are still backordered! IT looks like the right wing ones are in stock though. Maybe that explains people mixing and matching BH and fletch orientation....

Grizzlybroadheads.com

They come through Zipper. I orderd RW. Haven't gotten them yet, but I assumed they are shipping on time.