Sliding FOC....(Thinking out loud, and Curious)

[Soilarch]

First trad bow is in the mail, arrows will be tomorrow.  So I'm chomping at the bit, and actually looking forward to tuning the system.


....then I got this hair-brained idea from remembering some people have mentioned using bullets to increase FOC and manipulate spine....


.224 bullet (I know the range goes from at 40gr-69gr..maybe even more)  Put a wrap of teflon tape around it if needed and position by the nock.  This lets you get overall weight up when you hit the wall of how much weight up front the spine will handle.   You release the arrow and inertia keeps the bullet against the nock.  Upon hitting the target the bullet "slides" to the tip taking your high FOC arrow into the EFOC range.

IF you were willing to mess with the hassle of "tapping" the bullet back to the nock each shot AND you could work out the kinks (like the bullet "rattling" in the shaft down the range) would you see the benefits of EFOC?  The arrow MUST recover from paradox before reaching the target to see any benefits I'm sure.

I guess it's more of a physics question.

Of course, if you make a shot that normally would have come *close* to breaking the shaft it will definitely snap it with the extra 55gr in the nock.

What do you think?

[Shawn Leonard]

Nope, weight at the nock end increases arrow spine and 50-60 grains would make most any arrow act quite a bit stiffer. Not a good idea!  Shawn

[mbbushman]

But..... you could still have the arrow spined correctly to match the bow with the extra weight. Not sure I see a problem there, Shawn.

Intriguing idea, though. I may have to play with that. Although I'm sure someone on here already has!!

It would act just like a slide hammer for removing stubborn screws and bolts.

[Soilarch]

I thought of that Shawn and should have been more specific.  You would have to retune the arrow to fly correctly carrying an extra 50-60gr at the nock.

Bushman, the slide hammer (or more exactly the t-post slammers and wood splitting contraptions) is exactly what I was thinking of.  It "shouldn't" nock you inserts loose either since your not "slamming" on the shaft but the insert itself.


Of course, "should" and "shouldn't" have been famous last words for a lot of people  

[bjordnolf]

An arrow will never fly perfectly straight and any offset on impact at all would make the whole setup a big hindrance on penetration I would think.

[Shawn Leonard]

Even re-tuned the sliding weight would impede penetrations not help as bj said. Go with high FOC and you will be happy! Shawn

[Terry Green]

Just my thoughts....

If your 'first' trad bow and arrows are in the mail, I'd be more worried about tuning the bow to the arrows as they are, and learning to how to shoot.

A well matched bow and arrow, accuracy, and sharp broadhead  trumps all the tinkering in the world.

Good luck with your new goodies!  

[Soilarch]

I agree with the last three posts.  It's a matter of curiosity more than anything.  The no-perfect-arrow idea is where the real question comes into play.  Can the bullet be sent on it's way before the shaft flexes enough on impact to block/loose all forward inertia of the bullet.  It comes down to a very small window of opportunity and I just have no clue as too how it would turn out.

Don't worry Terry, my reloading bench is 2 hours aways!!!  My stock of .224 bullets and my soon-to-come shafts are safe for a good while yet.

[Bill Carlsen]

Way back in the 30's or so some guys did some testing with new aluminum arrows by putting weight inside the shaft at different points in relation to center (I got this in some copies of Ye Sylvan Archer). The result were that the further towards the nock they placed the weight, the more erratic arrow flight became. I know there are many variables but keeping the weight up front was best in their conclusions.

[O.L. Adcock]

Part of the reasons high FOC's and EFOC's help is the stability created correcting for poor releases and in flight disturbance by correcting quickly and loosing less horsepower. The idea would loose that aspect.....O.L.

[mbbushman]

Could you not still have an arrow with high FOC set up this way, and once the arrow impacts, the weight moves forward and creates EFOC? Being snowed in today gives me way too much time to think  :confused:

[Jason Jelinek]

Having the weight in the back then sliding forward on impact would make things even worse.  The shaft would flex even more than an arrow with 12% FOC causing extra drag in the animal.  This is due to the large amount of weight in the back.

Jason

[Soilarch]

I gave some more thought to this...it's no good.

IF you could get perfect(near-perfect) alignment by the time the arrow reached the target if you had a sharp broadhead there would be no abrupt "impact"...at least not enough to send the bullet forward.  Well say that the arrow weighs 550gr.  Ten times the amount of the 55gr bullet.  It will have much more inertia then the bullet.  If something (a scapula) decelerates the 550gr arrow fast enough to bring the 55gr. bullet forward...and extra 55gr. isn't going to do much...in fact a 200gr bullet might not do much if the scapula has already "stopped" a 550gr arrow.  What's more, we've seen the "skin twitch" on animals when they're shot. It's not a problem when the mass in in the head and already under the skin.  But I'm sure that "twitch" flexes the shaft to some degree and would still have an effect on the 55gr bullet.  

So our hope of the shaft NOT flexing and allowing the bullet to slide is ruined. Whether by not recovering from paradox or by the animal itself.

"Myth busted"  (I want that job...bad...they really mess a lot of things up...but I still love the show.)

[Zradix]

What you really need to do is put a loaded 22 mag shell up front so the sliding heavy bullet sets that off. Then who cares about FOC! ;-) The heavy bullet "should" or "might" keep the 22 brass from shoot out the nock and thumpin ya on the noggin.
Just a thought.
disclaimer    
DO NOT TRY THIS!!!!