ATV in Elk country

[Wary Buck]

They're a problem even here in whitetail country in Nebraska.  One landowner I know describes it this way:  "They think an ATV is a license to go anywhere, permission and fences mean nothing."  

Not only is it lazy, and disturbing to wildlife and wild lands, and insensitive to the hunts of others, but these people are cheating themselves out of the walks in and out, which are a huge facet of the overall experience.

[Ausable]

I just got back from a week long elk hunt in Oregon and my experience was much like Bear Heart's - atv use is excessive. Right at dawn/dusk they go buzzing around and in all directions. No elk spotted in 5 days of hunting, and not much real fresh sign. My next trip for elk will be into the wilderness areas away from any roads/atv trails.

[zilla]

Originally posted by myshootinstinks:
I'm told that ATV users caught in the wilderness areas of Wyoming are not only fined heavily, but the ATV sits right where it is stopped, not allowed to drive out.  In other words, along with the steep fine, if the abuser wants to keep his machine, he packs it out, one piece at a time.

Actually in Wyoming if they are anyplace off of the designated trails they are in violation.. This started a few years ago with the installation of ORV stickers..  The trails are marked on maps provided by the state..

[HalfRack]

I find my ATV highly useful, the fence pounder, posts and wire fit on it nicely and I can do repairs easily anywhere on my land.  Hunt with it, nah. It's acutually handy for hunting, find where they can't go because of natural barriers and that's where the animals are. Way over abused.

-Mike

[Dave Lay]

That is the number one reason I belong to the Back country hunters and anglers. They are our fight against this. I also own a ATV, but it never leaves a trail and is not ridden anywhere or at any time that would disturb others nor on public land. I know the country is over run with the ATV's and slob riders. Here in Arkansas it is really bad in the National forests. We have people coming from as far away as Kansas, Iowa etc to ride in our National forest PUBLIC lands, I have quit huntin in these areas and instead of drivin 30 minuites to hunt public land, I am forced to drive 2 hours to hunt a lease. I hate leases but it has gotten so bad we are forced to go that route, to hunt un disturbed animals. Our forests are cut up with "wheeler" trails, race tracks cut into river sand of a national wild and scenic river,  etc. Beer cans everywhere along thier trails.. I got tired of picking up thier trash..   In years past I almost lived in these mountians, I loved the peace and natural beauity of the area.. now I may go there 6 weekends a year. Then I just get disgusted.  I blame it on slob access.  The forest service has put a plan in place to curtail some of this but will never be able to inforce it I am afraid. It hasnt made much diffrence in the year or so it has been in place.  Dave

[Brian Krebs]

Here in Idaho; its a serious problem. While yes they do save gas; it takes a vehicle that is big to pull the things; and when I see a trailer with 4 ATVs being pulled by a monster 4x4 followed by another vehicle with camping supplies .... I gotta wonder IF they are saving gas.. and WHERE they are saving gas.

The BLM here in parts of Idaho that have been ravaged by ATVs is trying to deal with it; but the forest service? Nope. They have in my area one person that is authorized to write tickets to violators. And which violators are ticketed is down to- kids without helmets.

All the while; unlicensed kid drivers -drive on public roads where licensed drivers only are allowed..

The forest service puts up signs that say 'no motorized vehicles' or 'this trail is designated for foot; bicycle; or equine travel only'.

The forest service is happy with that approach- but of course; the violator just rips down the signs and goes on this merry way down the closed road.

It would seem logical to require roads that are open to ATVs etc be marked. That way if a sign does NOT exist - you cannot go down that road on a motorized vehicle. Ripping that sign down would not open the road to vehicles... DUH.

It has been repeatidy shown that elk will vacate an area if an ATV or motorcyle speeds up on them and scares them. They might well get used to vehicle traffic as long as the vehicles do not stop - and stay to roads and trails.

But the use of them off trails; or on closed trails- it moves the elk; and uses up their energy; and is not good in the sense that elk figure out safe cover from wolves and other preditors; and ATV people scare them into areas where they are more vulanrable to hunters and preditors.

There are responsible ATV owners. But one bad no ethics person- can ruin a whole lot of country: in one days buzzing around looking for an elk they can shoot off the handlebars.

In Idaho we have 90,000 of the buggers; and they irritate and infuriate people everyday of the hunting seasons.

But our fish and game is more concerned with satisfying the public in general than hunters or the game we hunt. In their own literature about motorized vehicles - they acknowledge that motorized vehicles have been a serious issue for nearly four decades. Our department is more greatful that the atv sales bring in tax money and jobs; than the affect they have when misused.

I have seen dirt piles put up to keep motorized vehicles - and they go over them ( weeeeeeeee).
I have seen gates put up; and they are jacked out of the ground and laid aside ( weeeeeeee).
They drive around cement barriers and cannot figure out why a sign says the road is closed if they can drive in somehow on it.

It is our bane.

First one ATV drives up the side of a mountain; and then the next sees the trail from the first and follows and on and on.

Thing is - here in Idaho you can still see the wagon ruts from the Oregon trail - that the pioneers put there with horse drawn wagons.
ATV tracks and motorcyle tracks leave ruts that lead to irrosion and loss of habitat.

I think first offense - a big fine; second offense- you lose your precious wilderness raper.

Plenty of farmers that could use them- or auctions could bring in revenue.

I have heard about nails in the ground; nails can penetrate an equine hoof- and possibly lead to thet death of horse(s). I have seen that where ATVs go straight up inclines; that a circular saw blade set in concrete will cut a tire in two. I would never suggest that though.....

I absolutely hate the misuse of ATVs - but they watch tv ads where an atv driver pulls up to a sign that says "road ends" which quickly morphs into a sign that says "fun begins". And ads that show people going up mountain sides just to show what manly men they are.

Frankly; I think anyone that uses them in areas they are not supposed to is doing it because they are afraid of the woods. They can get out fast if the boogy man scares them. I look at them as being blatant rule violators and consider them not to have any respect for others or the out of doors.

I also believe that when you open the trottle of a motorcycle; or an atv; or a snow machine- the more gas you give it; the lower your IQ goes.

The forest service and the fish and game should be dealing with these people- but they are not- and it seems we have no alternative industry to build up the current atv money income that exists...

Shoulder mounted rockets perhaps ?

[Al Kidner]

That is sad and for some years I've looked at the "Back Country Hunters & Anglers" and there stance on ATVs.

One day I plan to do a back country hunt for Elk. The very last thing I want to here is the air running out of a bulls lungs, not some fool on a ATV, head to toe in camo & machine as well.

I guess I'll goin up BCHA to support the cause.


AK,

[JStark]

Snag and others:

That forest service proposal is actually their mapping of "designated" roads.  For years there have been thousands of miles of social trails unrecognized by the USFS.  Now, they are trying to get a handle on all the use, and they are redrawing maps.  There is pressure to include many of these illegally created trails and roads by the off-road industry (ironic, yet telling name).  What the USFS needs to hear is that we don't want so many trails for ATV's.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

The neighborhood I grew up in was rampant with gun violence. It was a rare weekend when we didn't hear gunshots, day and night. I've personally witnessed two drive-by's and was even shot at once myself (wrong place, wrong time).

One particular summer there was a 15-year-old gang-banger killed in broad daylight around the corner. They shot him 5 or 6 times, if I recall. Later that same year another gang member was killed in his driveway around 3 o'clock in the afternoon. This was three doors down from my house. The shooters hid themselves in another house around the corner and didn't come out until the SWAT team gassed them out around midnight.

Do I hate guns? No. I still own some myself. Do I blame guns for the violence in my old neighborhood? No.

I blame criminals.

[Brian Krebs]

gottcha Jason.

I though blame those that not only allow the criminal acts; but encourage them -- through for one thing; non-enforcement of existing rules.

As a college and university graduate in criminal justice - I can say that the best way to deal with crime is with: consistant enforcement and punishment of those breaking the law.
   

[Tall Paul]

Go to the woods; some moron on a four-wheeler riding around pretending that he's a hunter.

Go to the lake; another moron on a jet ski riding in circles and making waves.

Unfortunately,the vast majority of people are totally inconsiderate of others.

The only answer is to ban all ATV's and Jet Skis from public land and lakes.

[snag]

JStark, thanks for putting it in those words! The one thing we have in our favor is the biologists! They are speaking out against ATVs. They have a lot of clout in restricting them. I heard from a NF representative that they are looking at greatly reducing where they can legally be riden.

[JStark]

Jason, I hear ya, but I must take umbrage to equating guns with ATV's.  First, public lands should be managed for the public, and some restrictions apply.  We all agree that, for example, lumber companies can't just cut down all the trees in a national forest.  

Also, guns and gun rights can be found in the Constitution, whereas ATV's ain't there.  And even with the 2nd Amendment, we all leave our guns at the courthouse door, a public place.

[Frank V]

I like O.L.s solution!!!!!!! Might give pause for thought the next time. Frank

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by JStark:
Jason, I hear ya, but I must take umbrage to equating guns with ATV's.  First, public lands should be managed for the public, and some restrictions apply.  We all agree that, for example, lumber companies can't just cut down all the trees in a national forest.  

Also, guns and gun rights can be found in the Constitution, whereas ATV's ain't there.  And even with the 2nd Amendment, we all leave our guns at the courthouse door, a public place.

Actually I think it's an excellent analogy. As sportsmen we decry the gun control crowd when they blame firearms instead of criminals. Yet as a group we are quick to apply the same logic to the abuse and illegal operation of ATVs. Remember "guns don't kill people, people kill people"? Well, ATVs don't screw up public land, irresponsible people on ATVs screw up public land.

Of course some restrictions should apply to ATVs on public land. No one here's arguing otherwise. Some restrictions apply to gun use too (I can't just go set up a rifle range in the middle of the street). But when someone commits a crime with a gun, do we blame the gun? No? Then why do we blame the ATV when some criminal decides to go rampaging around the mountainside?

It seems we're being a bit inconsistent with our logic.

[Old York]

Somebody done lost the lid to Pandora's box...

Damn these cursed machines, they go where they don't belong.

[Bear Heart]

Unlike public streets NF has very little enforcement officers I talked to a few of them out in Colorado.  They hate the situation as much as us.  Most are hunters.  What really made me sick was all the guys with bow cases on there handle bars driving around the woods looking for Elk. Put some boot leather on the ground and actually hunt.  Otherwise it's not much different than shooting from a truck!

[nutmeg]

It's the same here in CT. I have permission to hunt on a beautiful farm.(private land) and the four wheelers tresspass all over the place. They even built a ramp in one of the cornfields. We've told the owner who is in his late 90's and he is afraid of retribution. We've complained to the DEP and they say that they don't have the manpower to enforce it especially if the owner won't complain. JEREMY;if you're reading this, it's in your backyard. East Haddam.Rich Potter (nut)

[Over&Under]

Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
The neighborhood I grew up in was rampant with gun violence. It was a rare weekend when we didn't hear gunshots, day and night. I've personally witnessed two drive-by's and was even shot at once myself (wrong place, wrong time).

One particular summer there was a 15-year-old gang-banger killed in broad daylight around the corner. They shot him 5 or 6 times, if I recall. Later that same year another gang member was killed in his driveway around 3 o'clock in the afternoon. This was three doors down from my house. The shooters hid themselves in another house around the corner and didn't come out until the SWAT team gassed them out around midnight.

Do I hate guns? No. I still own some myself. Do I blame guns for the violence in my old neighborhood? No.

I blame criminals.

You hit the nail on the head Jason!!