Arrow help

[LJOHNS]

Trying to get my recurve set up.  52# - 62" Assenhiemer.  Getting nock left and a bit of high kick with bare shafts.  Tried 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2117.  All fly the same.  I draw a little over 28 so I figure I am about 53-54 lbs.  I figured 2018s should bare shaft great - but no.  Fletched they seem to fly good.  I am a bit confused. 

[Stumpkiller]

Try raising your nocking point 1/8"

[Alexander Traditional]

I agree with raising the nock. I have a Swift long curve that I tried every spine and tip I had finally played with the nock and that was it.

[Roy from Pa]

You need to shoot a couple fletched shafts along with a couple bare shafts. You want the bare shafts to group with the fletched shafts. Good video below will explain things to you.

[Roy from Pa]

For a right hand shooter.

BARE SHAFT PLANING

Somehow, bad information has been passed down from archer to archer for many years on the correct method to bare shaft tune. Some might be familiar with or heard of a technique of bare shaft testing that requires getting close to your target and analyzing nock left/right/up/down patterns for tuning purposes; That is not a good method and causes great confusion! Bare shafts sticking in a target at an angle or flying through the air sideways can be caused by shooter as well as equipment and you can not tell the difference reliably. The correct way is bare shaft "planing"; Determining adjustments based on bare shaft groups in relation to identical fletched shafts at longer distances. A fletched shaft always goes close to where it's pointed, bare shafts or wide broadheads will not. So, by "reading" the relationship between bare shafts or wide broadheads we can fix tuning issues while not allowing form issues to confuse us.

To get started you've got the shafts you want to tune. Many will try several different shafts and that's OK, but do not try to draw comparisons in what you see between them. It'll drive you crazy. Best bet is to pick a shaft size and do what's necessary to tune them.

Your bow should be set up exactly the way you intend to hunt or compete with it. All silencers installed, brush buttons, arrow rest, bow quiver, etc..... Install field tips of the same weight as the broadheads you want to shoot if you have a choice. Depending on how well you selected your shaft size, you may be forced to shoot tips heavier or lighter than your desire.

NEVER BARE SHAFT BROADHEADS! Field tips/target points only. Broadheads will act like fletching on the wrong end and wild flight can result.

Now to get started, step back 15 or so yards and start shooting 3 or 4 bare shafts mixed with 3 or 4 identical fletched shafts aiming for a spot. Odds are they are not going to fly very well so we need to start making adjustments to straighten them out. You are going to make adjustments based on where the groups are in relation to each other, not on whether the nocks are kicking one way or another. At this point, in the beginning, IGNORE SHAFT ANGLE! It is irrelevant.

We want to take care of any up/down problems first. If the majority of your bare shafts are grouping high or low of where the majority of your fletched arrows are, the nock point needs to be adjusted. Ignore left and right problems at this time. If your bare shafts are grouping lower than you fletched shafts, lower your nock point a tiny bit, maybe 1/32" and shoot several more arrows. If you lower your nock point all the way to zero and they are still grouping low, your nock point was too low to start with and the back of the arrow is "kicking" off the shelf, giving a "low" indication! If they impact (group) higher, raise your nock point. What you are looking for is the bare shafts to group only very slightly lower than the fletched shafts.

Now it's time to work on any left/right problems. If the majority of your bare shafts are grouping left of the majority of your fletched shafts, your arrows are too stiff. To correct this, you have several options. The easiest is to increase point weight one step and try again. It's possible you may have to go from a 125gr tip to 190gr or more to get good flight! Another option if you have a thick side plate on your arrow shelf in the sight window is to reduce the thickness of that side plate, moving the arrow closer to centershot, and test again. It's also possible you may never get good flight if they are way too stiff and you will be forced to get new shafts of a weaker spine or use a very heavy point weight. Hopefully that won't be the case. If the majority of your bare shafts group right of your fletched shafts or tend to scatter with no pattern, they are too weak. Reduce your tip weight and try again or build out your side plate further away from center. You can shorten your arrows 1/2" at a time which will make the arrow behave stiffer. Keep in mind overly stiff gives the SAME indications and cutting will make it worse. NEVER EVER CUT ARROW SHAFTS UNTIL YOU VERIFY WITH POINT WEIGHT. In other words, if you want to shoot 125 grain heads, only cut if 100's shoot well and 125's shoot weak. Again, if the problem can not be corrected, new shafts of a higher spine may be needed. Remember to never base adjustments on one or two shots, shoot many shots mixing bare and fletched shafts and average the relationship between the groups. For example, if 5 bare shaft shots went left of the fletched shafts, and one went right, adjust for a shooting left indication. Change only one thing at a time and evaluate the results. Changing from a 2018 to a 2117 for example is TWO CHANGES, not one! You have changed spine and centershot due to a change in shaft diameter. Any changes you make to the bare shafts, make the same changes to the fletched shafts! The bare and fletched shafts must be identical. Once you are getting fairly satisfied, step back to 20 yards and start shooting several fletched shafts and bare shafts. Continue to repeat the tuning process from ever greater distances until you reach being as far away as you feel comfortable.

A properly tuned set up, bare shafts and fletched shafts will group together out to 70 yards or more. Expect the bare shaft groups to be somewhat larger then the fletched groups for obvious reasons! The better your form is, the tighter the groups will be and the farther away you can maintain good groups, and finer tuning can be accomplished. The most forgiving arrow to shoot will show a slightly weak/slightly high nock point indication. In other words, at 20 yds or more, bare shafts grouping a little low and right is perfect because fletching makes a shaft react slightly stiffer. Totally confused? Here is an overview:

BARE SHAFTS GROUPING HIGH

Reason: Nock point too low

Remedy: Raise nock point



BARE SHAFTS GROUPING LOW

Reason: Nock point too high

Remedy: Lower nock point



BARE SHAFTS GROUPING LEFT

Reason: Over spined (stiff)

Remedy: Heavier point, or thinner side plate, or longer shaft, or switching from a Dacron string to a DF-97 or Fast Flight, or weaker arrows.



BARE SHAFTS GROUPING RIGHT

Reason: Under spined (weak)

Remedy: Lighter point. or thicker side plate, or shorter shaft, or switch from a DF-97 or FF string to Dacron, or stiffer arrows.

[trad_bowhunter1965]

Like post already raise your nock point and make sure your not collapsing at full draw, all my shots that go high left are me collapsing before my release,

[LJOHNS]

Thanks for this info.  Very helpfull!

[MnFn]

Roy gave you a very workable method to good arrow tuning.

[Roy from Pa]

How is the arrow tuning going, Les?

[elkken]

How long are your shafts, I would think the 2117 and 2020 are too heavy.

[Hud]

I agree with Roy, and would add to paper tune, use paper stretched over a picture frame (no glass), in front of backstop with enough room for clearance. Start close and work back slowly with bare shafts and fletched. Be aware that shooting form matters as well.

[Mint]

I tried both methods of bare shaft tuning and found bare shaft planning to be easier and faster at getting to the right tuned arrow. I think those 2018's and 2020's will be over spined no matter the point weight unless you go real heavy up front.