Even thought it was gun training the principles still transfer over to Archery.  Sam Dunham did a very very detailed write up of the similarities

QuoteOriginally posted by Rossco7002:

Some perspective is probably helpful too. Howard was a gifted all round athlete WHO MADE HIS LIVING by shooting and hunting with bow and arrow. He shot full time to hone his skills and became a master of the bow as a result. He could probably hit anchor, come onto target and release much faster than an 'amateur' such as myself.

Pretty much exactly what I was just going to write.
I've seen a couple videos of Howard's trick shots where you can clearly see him pacing off the distance of the shot.He knew exactly where his secondary spot was at that distance,and after who knows how many thousands of shots at that distance,could probably just swing up onto that spot pretty quick.
He said something like "anyone could miss the first shot but there was no excuse missing the second".You can see how much you missed by and adjust your spot up or down.
I think after all that shooting he was just able to settle into "the spot" much quicker than most,especially on those set up(known distance) trick shots.

rossco,
I was trained at FLETC and a few others in firearms and understand what you mean.

Even thought it was gun training the principles still transfer over to Archery.  Sam Dunham did a very very detailed write up of the similarities [/QB][/QUOTE]

*******Note for anyone who read my post before I edited it.  It was not meant to be pretentious, just lack of proper wording so I have changed it.******

Goshawkin&Rossco

Perfect explanation

I too see a lot of similarities in my firearm training and my hill style "fluid" form. Nice posts guys!

Not to break up the discussion but on FleaBay right now there is  a Sauk Trail Kankakee river Straight limbed LB. its only at 200 right now.  These bows are amazing and if I did not have one on order right now I'd be bidding. Just thought Id throw it out here for ya'll

Kyle - I think your form looks good.  I wish mine were that good and consistent.  And I don't think you are drawing past a 90 degree string angle.  I took a screen capture of your video and drew right triangles where the string meets the nocks at full draw.  The bottom limb appears to be close to 90, but the top is less than 90.  The percieved difference between the two may be due to the camera angle and your bow cant.



One thing I did notice in the video is that it looks like you get a lot of oscillation of the string after the shot as the bow returns to brace height.  I don't notice this in videos of others shooting hill style bows.  What do others think?  

I think his form looks great. I did not notice the string thing, I am going to watch it again.

I re-watched the video, and I see what you are talking about now. Maybe its just how the camera caught it and others bows are doing that to?  but we don't see it.  

I will give you some props if you can get consistent kill zone groups at 30-35 yards shooting that quick.  Personally, i could not draw up to anchor and release without setting my sight picture.  Even on moving targets I'm on anchor for a second. I hope you get it figured out Khard.

I think the oscillation is just to how it's playing back. I have other videos that I don't see that on. I'll post one taken the same day just prior to shooting outside. For some reason it is easy to see on the outside video. Almost as if done on slo-mo.

Every slow mo I've seen has the same oscillation.... If I remember right.

I noticed the string thing too just figured it was how the camera caught it.

That bow is a little whip-ended like alot of 80's Schulz bows...which make that angle the way it is

Nice form Kyle...watch the elbow and shoot with an uncluttered mind.  Your mind and body will know what to do.

Well there you have it...

Another look taken on the same day just inside. No wierdness with the string.

Thanks again Nate for all your help! Shot a bit tonight inside and focused on keeping the elbow down. It did tighten things up left to right and the bow was quieter. I'll be out shooting tomorrow for sure like we discussed!

Nice, that bottom limb is not kicking out much at all on most of those shots. Nice and steady. Let that bow hand just come up as high as it needs to. Cool Cool.

Could someone post pictures showing what a low shoulder looks like opposed to a regular or high shoulder? I read somewhere that Bob Wesley was taught by Howard to keep his bow shoulder low and back in the socket. I'm trying to visualize what this means.
Thanks for any help.

Jon, I talked to Nate about that yesterday and the way he described that was really helpful. He said to focus on keeping my bow elbow pointed down as if I were holding a heavy screw gun or something similar. You have to hold with your deltoid muscle.

In some of my shots I do a better job of that. The outdoor ones were the poorest example. I will try to video some more today or tomorrow since I think I can reproduce it a bit better now.

Swamp, I think you are right about the kick out and a lot of that has to do with me holding with my tricep and not my deltoid. I'll work on that a lot in the next few weeks. My bow is a lot quieter and the occasional wacking sound from the arrow hitting the shelf is gone when I keep that elbow pointed down.

Keep at it Kyle.  We are all in this learning process together.  Again, props to you for offering to be the "guinea pig".  Your form will benefit from it in the long run.  

Now onto something else.  I've always shot three under, but messed around with split off and on.  So it's been three under as a kid with a light recurve, as an adult with compounds (switching to a release before I came to the longbow) and now with the Semi-long.  

Recently I have been playing with split again mainly because I have noticed a DRASTIC reduction in string noise at the release.  Now my 3-U release is not "loud" by any means, but my split release is dead silent.  All I hear is the arrow hitting the bale.  

First question:  Why is split so much quieter than 3-U?  I know this is not unique to my shooting.  I searched and found this question asked before, but no clear answer for it that I could find.

Now onto my bigger problem.  So I'm a right-handed archer, but left eye dominant, like our mentor Howard.  And no don't try to get me to switch to lefty.  I have bad shoulders and I don't think my right could be a solid bowhand.  Anyway, when I shoot 3-U I anchor with my middle finger in the corner of the mouth and press the area between the second knuckle of my index finger to the first knuckle of my thumb into my cheek bone.  Nice tight fit and rock solid.  This allow for a nice gradual angle from my eye down the arrow shaft to the point.  Basically where I point the arrow goes.  When if I use the same anchor with split my sight picture is completely different since moving the index finger above the arrow effectively drops the nock end forcing me to lower my bow hand towards the target.  I'm now faced with a more severe angle from eye to arrow point.  I have to aim much lower for the arrow to hit the mark.  I tried to use the ring finger in the mouth corner, which raises the sight line back up to original position, but my middle finger gets in the way and my cheek anchor is no longer in the same place.  It creates a very high cheek anchor and I hate it.  It's very uncomfortable and not repeatable consistently.  

3-U always worked for me like pointing a shotgun.  Point the bow at the target and shoot.  Split throws me all outta whack.  It's aim under the target and pray the arrow finds the bale.

I would like to shoot split, so any suggestions are welcome.  Maybe I'll try 2-under.  That might help out.  I'll let you know how it goes.  But for now hit me with some advice and options.  Sorry Kyle, my turn to be "guinea pig".  :D

I'm jealous Kyle!

Out of curiosity what is your bow weight?
You handle it well.