dimmishing returns start at what bow weight?

atatarpm · July 11, 2012, 02:24:00 AM

Am looking to go up some in bow weight and was wondering at what weight point the limbs start getting so heavy that they pass their peek return?

cahaba · July 11, 2012, 02:55:00 AM

I would contact the bowyer and see if he had that info. I would think it would be affected according to design. A deep cored longbow might be different that a recurve.

gringol · July 11, 2012, 10:24:00 AM

This topic has been discussed a lot, and it seems a lot of people have very different ideas about what diminishing returns actually means. I think the best weight is the one you shoot well. If you shoot 100# well, go for it, but if you can only shoot 40# well, that is just fine too. So what is the bow isn't perfectly efficient, the deer with his lungs shot out doesn't know the difference.

BobCo 1965 · July 11, 2012, 10:38:00 AM

I think gringol hinted at it. The better question would be at what point would the archer start loosing his personal peek return. A custom bow can be crafted at any weight a human can shoot it.

Archie · July 11, 2012, 11:29:00 AM

The question is regarding the 'power produced' in proportion to the 'mass weight required to produce the power'.

A bow that pulls 400# is going to be too bulky in the limbs to be fast. Or explained another way, after some point, a 10% increase in bow weight is going to only start giving a 9%, 8%, 7%, 6%, etc. increase in performance.

I've heard that it's often around the mid-50's, but dependent on the bow design.

Dave Pagel · July 11, 2012, 11:39:00 AM

I do believe this is an individual bow design/materials answer. I once had a custom bowyer tell me in the testing he had done on his bows that 57# @ 28 was his tipping point. After that he got less increase in speed/lb. of draw weight with the same weight arrow. Whether that is the correct measurement is another entire topic of debate.

D.P.

July 11, 2012, 11:45:00 AM

Jack Howard told me that between 55 and 60 on his bows was where things started to fall in efficiency. I think that even with Hill style longbows there will be different results depending on the the individual tiller of the bow. I have seen 90 pounders shoot the same arrow slower than another longbow that was over twenty pounds lighter, but when I got a heavier bow made by the same maker I was surprised that the added weight did not give me much in performance over the one that is only 64 pounds. But really enough power is enough power, if the slower heavier one is what gives you accuracy go for it. I hit more pheasants per attempt with that slow 90 pounder than any other bow, so higher speed or less draw weights are not the only answers for everyone to achieve accuracy for hunting shots.

Blackhawk · July 11, 2012, 11:46:00 AM

My first question would be about intended purpose. Are you hunting 100# whitetails or 1500# eland? The heavier weight bow will allow you to use heavier arrows at killing speed and extended distances if you do your part.

Personally, I believe the 60# bow with 600 gr. arrows are adequate for just about anything on the planet that's legal to kill.

Will Cocke 2 · July 11, 2012, 12:00:00 PM

Carbon foam changes everything

njloco · July 11, 2012, 12:31:00 PM

I always thought it was at 55#, but things have changed somewhat.

Troy D. Breeding · July 11, 2012, 01:47:00 PM

I would think it would be different for different bows. No one range will be correct for every bow out there.

Look at the differnt in performance between the ACS design and the average Hill style longbow.

Troy

trad_in_cali · July 11, 2012, 03:08:00 PM

Hey Widowdoublelung, why does carbon foam change everything?
Thanks!
Marco

July 11, 2012, 04:54:00 PM

I have a bow that John Schulz built 40 years ago, if you did not know this you could not tell that it was my primary bow up until two years ago and has shot an average of over a thousand arrows a week for all of those years. I have a friend that always gets the fastest bows he can find, the one he has now is only three years old and he shoots just on occasion and the there is stress in the glass right where his last one broke. He bought a foam carbon used, liked how fast it was for two weeks, it started to come apart. He called and asked what hill would be a good bow for him, the first thing I told him was to man up and stop trying to draw like he was 7 foot tall, he is under 6 foot like me. He may lose arrow speed but he will gain in deer meat if he follows through. Slow and silent is always deadlier than fast and loud.

Will Cocke 2 · July 11, 2012, 05:11:00 PM

Carbon and foam are lighter in weight than what it previously took to make heavy weight limbs therefore giving you more performance from heavier limb.

JamesV · July 11, 2012, 10:45:00 PM

The theory of deminished return starts when I string my long bow or recurve no matter the draw weight.

James

Bob Morrison · July 12, 2012, 12:20:00 AM

Over the years this has changed.... at 60-65#@ 28"
Your gain is per pound is less. If you are shooting 80# on real big game, it is needed. Deer, elk, moose 50# will do the job... the right bow- arrow setup 45# is more than sufficient.

pdk25 · July 12, 2012, 01:24:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
... the first thing I told him was to man up and stop trying to draw like he was 7 foot tall, he is under 6 foot like me. He may lose arrow speed but he will gain in deer meat if he follows through...

Hi Mr. Dean, I am little confused by your statement. Was your friend greatly overdrawing the bow for it's length? BTW congrats on shooting the same bow for so long with so many arrows through it. Maybe one day I will settle down to one bow. Still playing for now.

Dan Adair · July 12, 2012, 04:38:00 AM

I've asked this question of both Dave Windauer and Dick Robertson.

Both gentlemen said what Fred Bear said. Over 60# and you don't gain as much after that.

I do know that from personal experience, and owning a chronograph, I have NO use for 77# limbs anymore.

pdk25 · July 13, 2012, 02:16:00 AM

I just wish that someone would quantify it a little better. This has been posted on a bunch. Does going up from 60 to 70# give you 90% of the gain that going from 50 to 60# does? Is it less/ more. I know that it will be different for each model of bow, but there should be some data out there. Saying that you don't gain much is such a relative statement. I know that you don't need high poundage for North America, but acting like there is no difference in performance for a ten pound jump isn't right either.

duncan idaho · July 13, 2012, 02:27:00 AM

Perhaps Kikk, Sixby, and other bowyers on this forum could give a comment.There are a lot of personal answers but none from the experts, without expert input, everything else is speculation,.