INFO: Trad Archery for Bowhunters



Author Topic: The state of hunting in America  (Read 1738 times)

Offline vermonster13

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 14572
The state of hunting in America
« on: January 08, 2007, 01:09:00 PM »
All of the threads and issues over the past few months have set me to thinking again and I believe this analogy is fitting.

Ever go for a ride and see a house that you just knew was beautiful at one time? Now it needed paint, the yard needed work, hedges needed trimming, some windows replacing, and so on. You could see that parts of the house were nolonger used and the roof was shot. People still lived there you could tell by the cars still in use in the driveway and some that weren't. Do you think when this house was first built it was ever thought that this would be it's fate oneday?

Decay can be an insidious thing when it happens slowly. We learn to live without somethings and let others slide because afterall the house doesn't look any different than yesterday or even that much different than last year. We'll get around to fixing it up eventually. Yet you drive a little farther and you see the house that is falling down and abandoned, you just know it was a stately place once.

Then you come to the place where everything is just torn down and new condos or a gated "community" has replaced what was once there. Hunting in Europe is much like the gated community, the places that still allow it make it very difficult to participate in and the places that don't are the abandoned house that was just allowed to rot away.

I see much of this slow decay creeping into hunting in America. In some places it is being replaced by the gated communities in others it is being allowed to just slowly rot. Some rooms of the house are closed up and nolonger used. The house has termites to boot that are eating at it's very core and trying to change the publics perception of it.

How much longer can we afford to let the decay continue? Should we rebuild on the frame we have or is going to need to be torn down and completely rebuilt in a form that we nolonger recognize to survive? Or is it going to slowly rot away until it is abandoned?

Felt I needed to put this out there, some will get all that is written here, some less and my greatest hope is even more of you will add to it and have ideas to repair what is lost.
TGMM Family of the Bow
For hunting to have a future, we must invest ourselves in future hunters.

Offline ratgunner

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 416
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2007, 06:21:00 PM »
Very well put Dave.Now how do we stop the decay?
TGMM "Brotherhood of the Bow"   "Family of the Bow"

Offline vermonster13

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 14572
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2007, 08:35:00 PM »
I am hoping all of the kind folks here will throw out some ideas for discussion. I have some, but want more input from other points of view first.
TGMM Family of the Bow
For hunting to have a future, we must invest ourselves in future hunters.

Offline Old Ways

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 103
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2007, 11:47:00 AM »
Well put Dave,

For myself I decided a while ago I will not support the big business side of hunting. To me it is destroying the heritage of bow hunting. I believe we need to keep it simple. Hunting is a personal thing and we each do it our own way but we need to be aware of consequences of our actions. More than just hunting is involved. The very world we live in is that house that is falling apart.

When we buy ATVs, blinds, stands, calls, or anything for that matter, we may be supporting an industry that is a termite eating away at the very structure of our planet. Do we really need all the junk we buy? When I see some of the do-it-yourself and how-to suggestions on this site it gives me hope that the people here are on the right track. Keep it up. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.

Also we need to look at how we present ourselves to the public. I have seen deer hanging till they rot just to show off the rack. Show respect for the game we hunt. Also show respect for those who don't choose to be hunters (True vegans or farmers  deserve respect). As far as "Anti-hunters", reason with them using mildness and facts. An argument gets you nowhere.

I also think we need to stop calling ourselves sportsmen. Although the secondary definition of the word fits in some respects, for the most part it is associated with sports. Bow hunting should not be a sport. It is a way of life and a means to put meat on the table. If one kills just for the thrill of the kill then they just fill the quiver of the anti-hunters.

Another issue I see is the misuse of public land. I see trees hacked apart for shooting lanes. I see illegal blinds. I see trees scarred and trimmed for treestands. I see litter left behind from water bottles, hand warmers, etc. I see trail markers cluttering up the woods. I see discarded deer carcasses laying along side two-tracks. I see ATV tracks accross lands closed to them. This stuff has to stop. It makes hunters look like a threat to the environment. If you carry it in then carry it out. Obey forest laws. Respect the environment and others rights to enjoy it. You just hurt yourself with these actions.

Saving our right to hunt & saving the environment go hand in hand. Speaking up is important but it is the little things you can do that matter too.

Years ago my wife and I decided to live a more simple life and try to be more of the solution and less of the problem. We changed what we could in our homestead to use less energy. We heat with renewable energy (solar, veg. oil, biomass). We try to cook with solar, alcohal stove and charcoal grill more than with propane. We only use natural fabrics. We try to only support local business and avoid the chains as much as possable. We boycott places like McDonalds, Burger King, etc because they are detrimental to the environment on multiple levels. We are building a small SUV that will run on biodiesel. We hunt, fish, gather and garden for our food. For recreation we canoe, kayak, hike, bike and ski as opposed to motorsports.

In this modern world it is hard to be 100% anything. It is all a compromise but if we really try to do our part to the best of our ability and encourage others to do the same we just may be able to make a difference after all. Maybe we can save more than just our right to bowhunt.
"You dishonor an animal if you take it's spirit without knowing  and respecting the way it lived."

Offline tamure

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 265
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2007, 02:25:00 PM »
That is the big question - how?

I personally believe that hunting in America is doomed unless a major shift in public perception is accomplished. No need to rehash what that perception is.

Mass media has to be involved, because unfortunately, it seems to rule people's thoughts and values. There needs to be tv shows and so on that portray hunting as normal and natural. I had hopes at the beginning of the Lion King, when Simba's father explains the "Circle of Life" by saying that the sun grows the grass, the antelope eat the grass, the lions eat the antelope, and when the lions die, their bodies feed the grass. But in the end, Simba ends up eating bugs so he won't eat his friends. *sigh*

However, since I don't think any of us are independently wealthy, actually making that happen would be very difficult. For this to even begin to work would require a very dedicated group of individuals who can give much of their time to raising money to produce and market such media and/or to get big producers to buy into the idea by making it profitable.

I wish I would have got a degree in something useful like business or finance.    "[dntthnk]"

On a scale more practical for the average person, participating in 4H shooting sports programs will at least reach some kids.
Directions: Hike, camp, hunt, fish, wash, rinse, repeat.

Offline swp

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2114
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2007, 04:08:00 PM »
I think the first step is to become involved with a national hunting rights association. The Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership is my choice. It costs nothing to join and can be as simple as sending an e-mail on issues you are concerned about. They deal with everything from the anti's to preserving places to hunt.
"People say you can't go back, its like when you get to the edge of a cliff and you take one more step forward or you do a 180 degree turn and take one more step forward. Which way are you going? Which one is progress?" Doug Tompkins

Online John Scifres

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 4534
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2007, 04:47:00 PM »
I disagree that hunting is doomed.  It will be around as long as there are defensible reasons to have it.  Most reasonable people will agree that it is necessary in many circumstances.  Even recreational hunting, sans a wildlife management defense, is acceptable to most reasonable people.  It has to be primarily for food and not for sport.  Trophy hunting is completely indefensible to non-hunters.  It just is.

My biggest problem with the state of hunting today is the image given off by mags and hunting shows.  It embarrassing.  If anything needs a renovation, these things do.  It won't happen unless more folks subscribe to the less hyper-commercial side of it all.  I can't see it though.  After all, as the Lorax says, "Business is business, and business must grow".

How to change things?  Raise your kids to be respectful.  Don't associate with those you don't think are doing the right things.  Speak up when you see things that are leading us over the precipice.  You won't get to be a celebrity on the boards doing it but you will make a change.  Kids listen.  Reasonable people listen.  It may not seem like it...but they do.
Take a kid hunting!

TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline JStark

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 155
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2007, 06:26:00 PM »
I agree, Vermonster, that hunting is the decaying house.  Usually those older places were built by someone who was happy and felt fortunate to have a place, a bit of land and a chance to make life better for the family.  Over time, he probably had to change jobs a couple of times, and as his kids grew up, he was unable/unwilling to instill in them the sense that land isn't property like a refrigerator; land is unique.  He, for some reason, didn't instill in his children the fact that this land was their responsibility, and from it they could amass great wealth in the form of accomplishments, physical deeds like putting in a new wall or plumbing, or planting a couple of fruit trees.  The house and yard were something important, big, and they gave back in return.  

Well, his kids went off to school, and got jobs that don't give them the opportunity to make things and see the products of their work.  They rented apartments, and by the time they looked for a place to buy, the only things they could get were cookie-cutter houses with no personality, that offered no sense of upkeep or accomplishment.  

But, why didn't they ever look back to their old place, go back, and fix it up to stay there?  

We've got get youth out of 'virtual' lives, and into the woods; show them what they are a part of.  Show them what they are responsible for.
Through education, appreciation;
through appreciation, protection.

Offline JStark

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 155
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2007, 06:28:00 PM »
So, in short, I feel you Vermonster.  And I agree with you, John Scifres.
Through education, appreciation;
through appreciation, protection.

Offline vermonster13

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 14572
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2007, 08:21:00 PM »
If I truly thought hunting was doomed John, think I'd spend so much time on this forum? I just want eyes opened and the path seen for what it is, I believe it can be saved and even changed, but folks need to know where it is for that to happen. Didn't get here overnight and not going to get better overnight either.
TGMM Family of the Bow
For hunting to have a future, we must invest ourselves in future hunters.

Offline tamure

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 265
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2007, 10:40:00 AM »
I think John's statement was in response to mine. I said I think hunting is doomed. Maybe I'm just more pessimistic than you guys, but with all the "hunting is ineffective to control herd size" and the movement toward contraception for deer, etc., I am afraid that even management - a very defensible reason for hunting - is going to become obsolete.

Although raising your kids well is vitally important to all aspects of society, it seems too little (in the sense that too few people are actually doing it) and too late. Kids these days have friends and teachers at school, at day care, on the internet. Basically, they are "with" them all the time. Advertising bombards them from all sides, telling them that they must entertain themselves with DVDs, iPods, playstations, TV (why would anyone actually buy a DVD so they can watch sitcom reruns?). I think parents today have to try very hard just to compete for their kids' attention.  

In that vein, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Use what already DOES have kids' attention. Our world is being transformed by technology, I think it only dooms hunting more to ignore that trend. (I'm  largely talking media here, technological advancements in hunting gear is a whole other can o' worms.)

For the record, I think WHA and Farbman have picked up on that, but I completely disagree with the message they are sending.
Directions: Hike, camp, hunt, fish, wash, rinse, repeat.

Offline vermonster13

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 14572
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2007, 11:07:00 AM »
Don't buy into the propaganda Tamure. The anti's push for the birth control and it is not a cost feasible method of control. I don't see them reintroducing wolves everywhere that management is needed, so we are still useful. We just need to represent ourselves well to the non-hunting majority and prove our place in the world still exists and it does.
TGMM Family of the Bow
For hunting to have a future, we must invest ourselves in future hunters.

Offline JStark

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 155
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2007, 01:45:00 PM »
Also remember that we have hunted this continent for thousands of years, and are as important to the makeup of its ecology as are wolves and bobcats.
Through education, appreciation;
through appreciation, protection.

Offline tamure

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 265
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2007, 03:16:00 PM »
I have read that none of that contraceptive stuff actually works, and I do not believe in that "propaganda." What I'm saying is I think it naive to believe that that will always be the case. Where there is a will, they will find a way. The antis have lots of money they are willing to spend on stuff like that. Maybe it won't be contraception. Maybe it will be something else. But I have enough faith in human creativity that, as long as they endeavor, I suspect they will eventually succeed in herd managment sans hunters like you and I.

What I'm saying is we need to turn public opinion such that there is not just a mild "approval" of legal hunting by a majority of Americans, but an active interest in it, and therefore an active opposition to the anti's efforts at such things.

In the vein of the old house: "The Good Earth" by Pearl S. Buck is a fabulous book which illustrates the value of land - and of valuing the land.
Directions: Hike, camp, hunt, fish, wash, rinse, repeat.

Offline vermonster13

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 14572
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2007, 03:27:00 PM »
I have said many times here that we need the non-hunting public behind us, the majority of Americans support hunting, it's us the hunters that they have issues with. That is why we need to always have our best face on and educate not dictate or demonstrate poor conservation.
TGMM Family of the Bow
For hunting to have a future, we must invest ourselves in future hunters.

Online John Scifres

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 4534
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2007, 09:43:00 AM »
I agreee completely with you David and you too Kerry.  

I have 3 kids who all appreciate hunting at least as a means of getting food.  They all have friends who know I hunt and see them eating the fruits of these hunts.  I do Cub Scouts where hunting and shooting sports are still encouraged.  I teach Sunday School where 10-15 kids a year know that I hunt and why.  Each of these kids has friends that can at least see a respectable man can still be a hunter.  I always try to act respectable and respectful especially when I am identifiable as a hunter.  That is what influences public perception.  And I don't shy away from telling others when I think they aren't doing the same.
Take a kid hunting!

TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline penetrator

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2007, 11:38:00 PM »
i think it comes down to 2 things.politics and people.first with the politics.we have a 2 party system,neither does a real go job regonizing the good that hunting does,not as a whole party any way.republicans want to sell off national forest and public land so their well to do buddies can benefit by building shopping malls and subdivisions and democrats want to save the forest and wet lands but not allow anyone to step foot on or hunt to appease their animal rights buddies.either way we loose.now for the people,we are own worse enemies.people get so caught up in trophy hunting and big racks that we loose sight of what we're actually doing.i work on a college campus in southern indiana.we just had 3 students get caught poaching a deer not far from campus.the deer will gross over 200" of antler and probably net in the 180-190" range.the farmer's ground that the deer was shot off of had been putting grain out for this deer for a couple of years to take pictures and see just how big he would get.now,do you think if a honest hunter ever tries to get permission from this hunter it will ever happen.hell no!it's people like that that ruin our image.the onlything i can say is take pride in high ethics,obey land owner rules,always be curteous even if the land owner says no,get envolved were you can,donate what you can and take a chid hunting.we're in a up hill battle,but if every body does alittle,it'll go along way.the biggest promblems i see for the future of hunting is not being aloud to hunt,but to have a place to hunt.

Offline jonsimoneau

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2944
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2007, 09:37:00 PM »
I'm young, only 28 years old, and I can see how much hunting has changed in just the last 15 years.  I believe that the biggest problem is the ever growing human population.  The only reason the leasing thing has taken hold is because there are too many people and not enough ground.  I hate to say it, but just due to the neverending increase of population, I believe hunting in the U.S. as we know it will eventually end. The result will be exactly what they have in Germany. I doubt it will happen in our lifetimes, but I do think it will happen.  The only thing that will stop it, is if for whatever reason, population growth were to slow significanly.  I will say this...If it ever does end in my lifetime, I will move to another country.  Canada, Australia, whatever.  I cannot comprehend a life where I cannot hunt.

Offline Alex.B

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 506
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2007, 09:30:00 PM »
Amen to that, Jon. Just make sure your future wife doesn't want more than 1 or 2 children, or you'll become part of your problem   :)  
great picture of you this week, by the way

take care,

Alex
tgmm, tanj, compton, bha

Offline JStark

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 155
Re: The state of hunting in America
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2007, 12:34:00 AM »
Some good news on the population front.  The countries with the largest population growths have curbed their growth rates very significantly.  The UN has re-estimated the human growth rates over time, and have moved their long-term growth number from 2.1 kids/couple to 1.85.  This means that, in the long run (after about 75 years or so), the human population will actually start to shrink.  In every major industrialized country except one (the US), populations are shrinking so rapidly that it is actually causing some concern about economic forecasts, labor, etc.
Through education, appreciation;
through appreciation, protection.

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©