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Author Topic: flinching  (Read 518 times)

Offline 89redtruck

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flinching
« on: August 11, 2019, 06:27:39 PM »
I shoot great when I can keep from flinching.  But I've been flinching for over 50 years & I can't seem to stop!  Help!

Jim

Online McDave

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Re: flinching
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2019, 10:04:13 PM »
Every really good shot that I’ve had the privilege to shoot with has flinched and plucked occasionally.  So I think it's something to minimize, not necessarily eliminate.  I believe both flinching and plucking are symptoms of loss of back tension, so if you focus on maintaining back tension all the way through shot conclusion, and let the release happen rather than try to trigger it yourself, you're doing all you can.  I believe this advice holds for both the dynamic release and for the dead release.  When you do flinch or pluck, just remember that it happens to everyone, and double down on back tension for the next shot.
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Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: flinching
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 02:10:29 PM »
Yes, everyone has a flinch now and again, but it sounds like you may be on the verge of having a more sinister problem.  I'd suggest you begin doing a lot of draw, aim, expand and let down drills.  I think you’d find them to be most helpful.
"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Offline LongbowArchitect

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Re: flinching
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 05:50:36 PM »
Flinching is the "anticipation" of your release. Use Jim Castro's course to break this.

Online montanabows

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Re: flinching
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 10:31:44 PM »
Jim  give me a  call Dan 406 253 4949 anytime
montana bows

Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: flinching
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2019, 12:34:02 PM »
89redturck,

I didn't realize your name was, Jim.  I called Dan thinking he was referring to me and I'm sure glad I did.  He has a nugget you need to hear about.  So... I highly recommend you give him a call.  You'll be glad you did.

"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Offline Sam McMichael

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Re: flinching
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2019, 02:40:31 PM »
Hey McDave, you said even really good shots flinch and pluck the string from time to time. I do also. Does that mean I can still become a good shot? In form practice, that is the one thing that I must concentrate on continually. I am not familiar with Jim Castro's course. Is it an on-line course, a book, or in-person seminar? If I could improve my release my shooting would be enhanced greatly.
Sam

Online McDave

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Re: flinching
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2019, 03:47:58 PM »
Jim’s course is a method of overcoming target panic.  It is a set of instructions he will send you that you follow for quite a few days, 90* I think.  The hardest thing is that during this period, the only archery shots you take are those specified in the course.  You don’t hunt, you don’t do archery tournaments, and you don’t go roving with your friends.  It builds a strong foundation so that by the end of the course your body knows exactly what a controlled, aimed, relaxed shot feels like, and you know you can reproduce that shot under controlled conditions.  After you finish his course, you transition on your own into more uncontrolled conditions until you can reproduce that shot under more stressful circumstances.

I had target panic bad for many years, and finally worked myself up to a level where I could draw the bow by focusing on the riser, but could not really aim very well because the target panic came right back as soon as I switched my focus to the target.  Jim’s course got me past this last impediment until I can now draw and focus on the target and make a relaxed shot.

So will Jim’s course make you a better shot?  It will if you have any issues with nerves or control of the shot.  The best thing would be to contact Jim with a PM.  He is present on this thread, and I’m sure he would welcome hearing from you.  (As long as you call him Jim Casto and not Jim Castro DAMHIK!)

*Edit:  I looked this up.  Actually is only 63 days; piece of cake!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 10:12:08 AM by McDave »
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Online fnshtr

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Re: flinching
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2019, 06:32:59 PM »
I try to concentrate on having a "relaxed shot". Staying calm in mind. Seems to help me (sometimes).
:>)
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Offline 89redtruck

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Re: flinching
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2019, 10:39:15 PM »
Thanks to all for the input. 
Dan, I'm going to call you as soon as I get a chance.  My problem is bigger than a flinch now and then.  The exception is "not" flinching for me.  The next few days are going to be hectic, so I'll call when I can.
Jim

Online McDave

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Re: flinching
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2019, 04:21:18 PM »
From what you said, I would say that you have been training yourself to flinch, and doing a pretty good job of it.  What you need to do is to train yourself not to flinch.

Let’s say you’re training a dog to come when called.  Are you going to accept it when the dog doesn’t come?  How well does it work to get mad or unhappy when the dog doesn’t come?  The dog doesn’t like it when you’re mad or unhappy, but it doesn’t help him to learn to come.  In fact, the dog might prefer to stay away from you when you’re mad or unhappy with him.  No, what you have to do is something to change his behavior.  Every. single. time. he doesn’t come.  You might try beating him, or yanking on a long leash, rewarding him when he comes, or a combination of things.  Some techniques might work better than others, and better with some dogs than with other dogs.  But the basic rule remains the same: it is never an acceptable outcome for the dog not to come, not now, not for the rest of his life.

The same thing applies to your flinch.  A flinch is never acceptable, starting now, for the rest of your life.  Of course, you are still going to flinch, unless you are better than the best archers out there, but it is never acceptable; you have to do something about it.  The best thing to do about it is to let down the bow and start all over again.  It is better to have 20 let downs than one flinch that gets away from you.  It’s like staring down the dog for a half hour with a treat in your hand rather than just walking away and letting him get away with not coming.  Don’t try to train the dog to come unless you’ve got the time to follow through with it.  Same thing with a flinch: if you let down every single time you flinch,  you’re training your body that the response to a flinch from now on will be a let down and not a shot.

A second way, not recommended by most coaches, would be to recover from the flinch and carry on with the shot.  I’ve seen champion archers do this successfully in tournaments, but those are people who don’t flinch very often, so are probably not training themselves to flinch when they recover without letting down. They are able to put the flinch out of their minds and continue with the shot as if it never happened.  But for a person who flinches a lot, it would be better to train themselves to let down after a flinch.  It is not an easy thing to let down when you’re primed for a shot, and it requires some training so the shot doesn’t get away from you after you flinch.

The third way would be to go through Jim’s course.  Flinching is not exactly the same as target panic, but his course focuses on executing a perfect shot in a controlled environment.  Because of the absence of any pressure, it is generally possible to go through his course without experiencing target panic. After repeating many hundreds of draws and shots without target panic, the target panic seems to stay away, hopefully forever, and the same might be true of your flinching.
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Offline 89redtruck

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Re: flinching
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2019, 12:07:53 PM »
McDave, you are correct, I was shooting a bow by 1960, as a kid of course, and never received any training or knew anyone who could give advice.  I started off jerking the bow at release and have done so for decades.  It’s funny because I have shot firearms all those years, even the really large caliber rifles, and don’t flinch with them.  But I can’t hold steady with a bow, except by sheer concentration.  The “let down” is a good idea but most of the time it is when I release that the flinch occurs.  Sometimes I’m still at full draw after a flinch but not often. 
I’m going to call Dan at first opportunity.  I will say that this interaction with you guys has given me hope that I can conquer this.

Jim

Online McDave

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Re: flinching
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2019, 04:24:15 PM »
Jim passed on to me the advice that Dan gave him, and it is definitely on point with your problem of flinching at the time of release.  No big secret, it just comes across better in person, so you should give Dan a call.
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Would someone please make up my mind for me?

Offline 89redtruck

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Re: flinching
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2019, 01:58:42 PM »
I just got off the phone with Dan; what a great guy to talk to.  He has given me some advice that should make a real difference in my shooting. 
Jim

Online DanielB89

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Re: flinching
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2019, 02:19:36 PM »
a little late to the party here, but I have something similarish I have been battling ever since I made the swap to 3u.  I can't seem to lock the bow on target(subconsciously).  Right before I shoot, only most shots my i raise up a smidge right before the shot.  It's so subconscious I don't even notice it most of the time, that is until I film myself. 

I don't know that I have "over come" it, but it doesn't manifest itself as much as it used to. 
"Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD And whose trust is the LORD. Jeremiah 17:7

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But its end is the way of death."  Proverbs 14:12

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