Shooters Forum

Contribute to Trad Gang
Become a Trad Gang Sponsor







Author Topic: split vision training methods  (Read 1676 times)

Online slowbowjoe

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 1274
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2019, 09:17:22 PM »
 "You should be focused on the spot you want to hit, with the arrow or the arrow point in your out of focus peripheral vision.  If your focus shifts to the arrow or the arrow point, you should let down and start again."
 - McDave's words from another post on this page explain, very well, my experience as I shoot what I believe would be called split vision. I definitely use the arrow to aim; I see most of the saft easily in my peripheral vision... but if I try to actually see the point, I lose my visual hold on the spot, and the  shot's blown. And I let down if I notice that.
 Instinct for elevation comes with practice; I do a lot of stump shooting, which helps a lot with the learning.

Online pavan

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 7501
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2019, 12:35:40 PM »
Split vision aiming, for most people, is not something that you can just jump into.  It takes practice and conditioning to be able to control your focus and do it in a timely fashion that can meld into ones shooting, without forcing it.  Hill explained how to practice it.  Secondary aiming over time gets to be second nature, until lines from instinctive to a hard aim get blurred at closer ranges.  For most hunters that keep their shots under 30 yards, the good ole bore a hole through it with the addition of a general acknowledgement of the arrow/bow/knuckle in the shot visual will be good enough.  One does not need to get his eyeball right on the shaft to get a pretty good idea of where it is pointing.  Seems like people are always looking for the guaranteed simple 5 step approach, I guess to overcome the human element.  Care must be taken to not get into the 'Much Ado About Nothing' tangle.
Pavan

Online pavan

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 7501
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2019, 05:56:26 PM »
Two simple bits of history, Hill was left eye dominant, he at one time in his target years used the point of aim method.  That is a peg or object on the ground where the point of the arrow is positioned that would put the arrow in the bull's eye from an exact set shooting position.   Mechanical split aiming would be to keep one's eye on the center of the the target while the arrow is placed on that pin or aiming object on the ground.  Maybe acknowledging a secondary aim gave his non-dominant eye something to do so his dominant eye would not take over the shot.  I do not have a dominant eye and shoot left and right handed, a simple glance at the arrow for me can get the off side eye trying to take over the shot, it has a better perspective at the arrow. These are my test arrows from 24 yards, they vary from 475 grains to 605 and grains with various spines and point weights.  Shot from my duo shooter Sunset Hill 55@26 B50 string, my attempt was to aim them all and shoot them all the exact same as I could without fudging for arrow weight.  We found it interesting that group after group the bow did not show any preference that i could see when shooting.  I was sitting and using a bright red ball as the secondary point of aim for every shot.  The goal is the same for all new bows, just to see which arrow the bow likes best, not to prove how good i can group arrows using the point of aim method.  When aiming and shooting until I no longer need the ball and I am in full speed tempo, 1.5 seconds from beginning of draw to release, is it mechanical or is it instinctive?  Or is it informed instinctive?  The photo is mechanical in all regards including long holding times, with matched arrows I find I am about the same at standard longbow tempo without aggressive aiming, but I do need to remember to actively push my bow hand palm at the target and where i intend to hit it. 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 06:04:07 PM by pavan »
Pavan

Online Friend

  • Global Moderator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 6776
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2019, 04:15:57 AM »
May have been incorrectly identifying my own aiming system as split vision. I have trained many others that have picked it up quite successfully in a very short time.

I see the point when initially establishing the horizontal alignment.

I utilize two engrained windows, in my periphery, between the target and the shadow-like periphery view of the arrow.

I stay focused on the target

Seeing in my periphery the arrow as a dark shadow image

I only assess, in my periphery, the window of light depth between the target and the arrow shadow image

The windows are set as if opening or closing a window shade.

A ½” window is for 15 yards and in…Note: the ½” window designation is actually not a ½” window , but close enough that I have it engrained. Note: the arrow tip could be pointed in the dirt yet, I don’t see it.

A ¼” window for 20 yards

25 yards is my point-on

Beyond 25 yards, I stack

My partner uses the same method and has taken a 2nd, a 3rd and last year, a 1st in the World’s Bowhunter Class. Actually, I taught him the method years ago. The only difference in our methods is that his point-on is 30 yards and his greater skill level permits him to use three windows. I find it personally to be a much less stressful aiming technique. I am actually more accurate using point-of-aim however. I will become stressed and my accuracy starts to deteriorate in short order. Also, this technique has been, by far, my most successful and consistent technique in the field. As being restricted to ground while hunting, I am often unable to see my broadhead, at full draw while in a blind. I can easily view the site window between the target and dark shadow image of the arrow.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 04:26:12 AM by Friend »
>>----> Friend <----<<

My Lands… Are Where My Dead Lie Buried.......Crazy Horse

Offline jackdaw

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1112
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2019, 11:22:05 PM »
100% what Sam McMichael and Dave said..!! When slow-drawing...I am maybe 30% focusing on the shaft closest to me. Making any "windage" correction as I go. By the time I hit my anchor, my 70% concentration on the intended point of impact takes over and burns a hole. I release at immediate anchor.Its one fluid motion. Its also a learned skill..After firing many thousands of arrows, I became increasingly aware of the arrowshaft in my peripheral vision. So I decided to use it to some degree as a windage alignment. Perhaps 70/30..or 80/20..who knows.? But its very effective for the instinctive shooter. I NEVER look at the point...no need to. JMO......Jackdaw
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 11:52:56 PM by jackdaw »
John Getz:........... Time flies like an arrow, Fruit flies like bananas.
Ed HOLCOMB 59' KODIAK 51#
Ed HOLCOMB 59' KODIAK 47#
67'1/2  BEAR SUPER K  44#
WILSON BROTHERS BLACK WIDOW 60" 45#
LONGRIVER ELK 62" LONGBOW 53#
1967 WING 62" SLIMLINE 43#

Offline Wolftrail

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1140
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2019, 11:04:52 AM »
Quote from Pavan,   "just to see which arrow the bow likes best"  That does help me with my grouping no doubt.  Some bowyers keep using the same arrows with various bows and wonder why their groupings are all over the map.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 08:16:45 PM by Wolftrail »

Online Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 22316
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2019, 08:24:08 AM »
I pre aim all my shots.  I bring the bow and arrow to my line of sight. That's the reason I am on target at anchor. HH did the same.  Some folks really never can understand Instinctive shooting, nor will even admit that it exists. Moslty because those that can't do it think no one else can either.

My mental make up doesn't work for me and the gap method, but i don't down play others that have that mental make up.

Be careful accepting broad brush stokes, they can severely limit your abilities.
 
Don't let anyone steer you away from your desires in your original post....after all they are yours, you own them....now figure out how to get them.

Check your email.  :campfire:

tarz@tradgang.com


"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

' An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to execution' - Me

Offline Skates 2

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 305
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2019, 09:03:46 AM »
Most of the guys I hunt with, from all over shoot instinctive.  They are all good to great shots and their freezers are always full.  They are always in the woods, and not in camp talking about target panic.  :biglaugh:

Offline jackdaw

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1112
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2019, 09:49:43 AM »
Right on Skates...paralysis through analysis is a real thing. Sometimes "grip it and rip it" works best. It does for me...dont overthink it...
John Getz:........... Time flies like an arrow, Fruit flies like bananas.
Ed HOLCOMB 59' KODIAK 51#
Ed HOLCOMB 59' KODIAK 47#
67'1/2  BEAR SUPER K  44#
WILSON BROTHERS BLACK WIDOW 60" 45#
LONGRIVER ELK 62" LONGBOW 53#
1967 WING 62" SLIMLINE 43#

Online pavan

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 7501
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2019, 03:54:22 PM »
Shooting point on is split image aiming, for me, my bows and my arrows that varies from 52 to 58 yards.  Not enough to make much difference 40 yards and under.  In hunting shots  30 yards and under, trying to do all of that math creates too much second guessing for me.  Whether we shoot instinctive or try to use a mechanical aim, focus control is more important, those last 5 or 6 inches of draw along with focus on the center of a center spot will give the on board computer a snap shot if the aim was good or bad.  If the shot dropped way low or went way high, that second shot will have information to work with automatically as long as the focus control was working at release with the first shot.  After a while that consistency makes most shots more of an automatic response, some call it instinctive.  Good fluid instinctive shooting is a tighter process than many think it is, while over analyzed mechanical shooting is a lot looser process than many want it to be, especially with hunting shots.  Some people's hunting world is shooting at a deer by a feeder and shooting from a blind, mine is never that predictable.  Most years the first shot i take at a passing dove, I can hardly believe how far back the arrow flew, they are a lot easier to hit when they are landed or about to land. This year i started out shooting at passing doves with a sling shot with white marbles.  i took one shot with a bow the other day and actually shot a foot in front of a passing dove at about 40 yards, things are looking up, one day a may hit  one.
Pavan

Online GCook

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 866
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2019, 11:16:23 PM »
I pre aim all my shots.  I bring the bow and arrow to my line of sight. That's the reason I am on target at anchor. HH did the same.  Some folks really never can understand Instinctive shooting, nor will even admit that it exists. Moslty because those that can't do it think no one else can either.

My mental make up doesn't work for me and the gap method, but i don't down play others that have that mental make up.

Be careful accepting broad brush stokes, they can severely limit your abilities.
 
Don't let anyone steer you away from your desires in your original post....after all they are yours, you own them....now figure out how to get them.

Check your email.  :campfire:
I agree with that.  I've said it on other forums and gotten plenty of flack for it. 
Then again I don't have to be "point on at 45 yards" or whatever that even means.
I just need to be close and put and arrow on that one hair. 
I'm sure my brain is doing a lot of internal calculations when I'm drawing on my target.   
I like the close game traditional archery is for me.  I don't see my aiming style/ process as limiting.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Offline Madre Man

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: split vision training methods
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2019, 08:59:58 AM »
Ha! Yeah skates, and all those flack givers arguing over aiming methods don't ever seem to visit the skinning poll. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Anyone looking for no nonsense form info, check out the Form Clock thread, there's a damn good reason why its stickied at the top.  :readit:

Users currently browsing this topic:

DawgDoc and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2019 ~ Trad Gang.com ©