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Author Topic: Increase Draw length  (Read 4344 times)

Offline starshooter

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2018, 11:00:18 AM »
It sounds like I need to "pull through" the draw ? Sometimes I can feel the shoulders swing back towards my back and my chest expands which is good right?
64” Howard Hill “Redman”  46” @26”
66” Jet Archery “Jaguar” 42#@ 26”
52” Java Man “Helms Deep”  41#@ 26”

Online moebow

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2018, 11:54:54 AM »
In my book, that's what you want to do.  The release is caused by further activation of the (string) shoulder , not the hand so then, when the string goes and the bow weight is gone, your natural reaction is for that string hand to move straight back along the cheek.  Like you are in a tug of war with the string and then when suddenly gone, the string side naturally recoils back.

Arne
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Online McDave

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2018, 08:48:26 PM »
There are two styles of releasing the arrow we generally see in the United States: the dynamic release and the static release.  The style more often taught is the dynamic release, which is the style used by Arne and Rod Jenkins.  Probably more people end up using this style than the static release, which is the style I use and Rick Welch uses.  Hopefully the reason more people end up using the dynamic release is because it works better for them, and not because they didn't ever learn the static release, or because they were convinced the dynamic release is the “right” way to shoot.  Because the only reasonable way to make a choice is what works best for you.  Biomechanical efficiency sounds logical, but what really matters is what puts arrows in the target.  A bumblebee logically should not be able to fly, but it does.

I started archery late in life after I got too old to rockclimb.  I had the luxury of being able to read and watch a lot of videos, wanted to pick the best way I could to learn to shoot the traditional bow.  I spent a lot of time learning and practicing the dynamic release before I met Rick Welch.  While Rick is a great guy, the ONLY reason I switched to the static release is because I shot better that way.

I agree with 99% of what Arne says, and believe he was very fair in his evaluation of the two styles.  I agree 100% with his statement that the two don't mix well together.  If I had listened and applied everything Rick told me in the first lesson, I probably wouldn't have had to take two more.  Most of the time spent in the two other lessons was Rick getting me to unlearn parts of the dynamic release I was trying to mix with the static release, and to relearn parts of the static release that I had glossed over.  Arne's statement that it is necessary to lock off the back muscles at the end of the draw when using the static release is correct; I don't think most dynamic release shooters know that, and many people who quit using the static release probably didn't learn that.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 09:46:42 PM by McDave »
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Offline starshooter

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2018, 09:50:41 PM »
My question now is how do I counteract the "shockwave" after the release
which supposedly neutralizes the back tension that I am slowly acquiring ??
Thanks.
64” Howard Hill “Redman”  46” @26”
66” Jet Archery “Jaguar” 42#@ 26”
52” Java Man “Helms Deep”  41#@ 26”

Online McDave

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2018, 10:16:02 PM »
This is a video of Rick shooting in his prime:



You can see that he doesn't have any shockwave.

For a good example of shooting with a dynamic release, see any of Arne's vídeos, or Rod Jenkins section of vol 3 of Masters of the Bare Bow.

Whether because it comes naturally to you or because you were taught that way, you seem to have a good start on the static release.  Whether you continue that way or not is up to you.  Either way is a fine way to shoot.
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Would someone please make up my mind for me?

Offline starshooter

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2018, 10:37:13 PM »
Wow! that group of arrows he shot is like a cluster of hornets packed in their nest. Un believable....that is what I d like to see in my own shooting well, a fraction of that anyways. How do I get tighter groups?
64” Howard Hill “Redman”  46” @26”
66” Jet Archery “Jaguar” 42#@ 26”
52” Java Man “Helms Deep”  41#@ 26”

Online McDave

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2018, 11:13:15 PM »
Rick is totally self taught, never had a lesson in his life, and had a body strong enough to stand up to shooting many hundreds of arrows every day when he was training.

I don't think either one of us can do that, so we have to find a different way.  We weren't born with the genes to be a Tom Brady or a Rick Welch.  Face it, you or I will probably never stack 5 arrows into a target at that distance that are all close to touching each other.  But what we can both do is learn to improve.  You and I are about the same age with the same capabilities (or lack thereof).  If you accept a discipline, whether Rick's or Rod's or Arne's, and practice it faithfully every day, you will get to the point where your friends no longer congratulate you on bullseyes, because you make them too often to be worth commenting on.

The thing that makes Rick or Tom special is their ability to be aware, on a physical level, of what their bodies are doing.  You mentioned that you were becoming aware of your back muscles.  What if you started at that level, and were able to expand your awareness by a factor of 100 or 1,000?  Just like you are beginning to be aware of your back muscles where you weren't aware before, you can learn to be aware of all the other things that are important in your shot.  You do this by turning off the analytical part of your mind (the part that thinks in words) and focusing on the part of your mind that feels things.  It is one thing to be born with these capabilities, but it is just as much fun to learn to use them, even if we never reach the level of those who were born with them, because you can improve more than you ever dreamed possible.
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Offline starshooter

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #47 on: May 28, 2018, 11:03:51 AM »
Yes it is fun to learn through experience.. I am still wondering why I got bows built to 26" draw. I am now pulling a youth recurve 25# at 28" and I know that once I go up in weight that my DL will decrease . Should I take the present Dl with a grain of salt and wait til i up my poundage to 35# ? What is important to me is the back muscle isolation and feeling the lock of my drawing elbow as I reach full draw. I have been studying the videos Annie and Rick Welch who has the static release you speak of. The "rotational draw" is still a mystery .
64” Howard Hill “Redman”  46” @26”
66” Jet Archery “Jaguar” 42#@ 26”
52” Java Man “Helms Deep”  41#@ 26”

Online moebow

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2018, 11:23:42 AM »
"... I know that once I go up in weight that my DL will decrease..."

It shouldn't!!  But for many, when they are just using muscle to pull the bow back, they can't really set or find a consistent draw length and then it MAY change with bow weight. Even when your hand is on the same place on your face, different weights will tend to make you collapse your shoulders or arm position making the draw length SEEM to change.  That's why I like the rotational draw and bone on bone structure for the archery shot.  If the bones get lined up, your draw length can NOT change.

You asked earlier about how to reduce the "shock wave" at your release.  That is a function of evening out the forces applied to your body between your bow hand and string hand and through the bones. It is really a RESULT of form and shot execution and not something that you can specifically address directly.

The rotational draw is pretty easy to learn when working with someone that knows what it is but fairly difficult when trying to learn it on your own.  Besides my videos, you may want to check out a lesson I gave a guy. It is posted on DIY sportsman.  Another is found on Archery 101.  All on You Tube. AND there are others.

Arne
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

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Offline starshooter

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2018, 10:59:48 AM »
Terrible shooting this morning.. I took some rear view videos along with back side videos.. they show no back / shoulder contractions. And the the chest expansion is noticeably absent. I won’t trouble you with needless vids but I am discouraged, I am not overbowed and I am trying to establish the rear elbow at full draw and release. Bad day.  :deadhorse:
64” Howard Hill “Redman”  46” @26”
66” Jet Archery “Jaguar” 42#@ 26”
52” Java Man “Helms Deep”  41#@ 26”

Offline starshooter

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #50 on: May 30, 2018, 11:04:58 AM »
I wondering if there are any exercises or form master that would enable me to get this right??? Good idea?or overkill? Thanks.
64” Howard Hill “Redman”  46” @26”
66” Jet Archery “Jaguar” 42#@ 26”
52” Java Man “Helms Deep”  41#@ 26”

Online McDave

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #51 on: May 30, 2018, 03:48:16 PM »
It would be useful for you to review volume 3 of Masters of the Bare Bow, in which Rod Jenkins spends a lot of time on back tension, and explains the Formaster.  Better would be for you to get a schedule of courses he is planning and attend one.  Feel free to get all 5 volumes of Masters of the Bare Bow if you want to.  I look at the whole set again every year or so.

Another exercise you can try is the wall exercise.  You find a wall or a pole or a post where you can put a target not too far away.  You stand close to the wall or the post so that when you draw the bow, the back of your elbow touches the post at full draw.  You press against the post with your elbow and maintain the pressure until after you shoot the arrow.  The only way you can do this is through back tension.  I've never tried to do this long distance with anyone, so I don't know if I’ve explained it well enough that you can do it.  It's easy in person.

An instructor can do this exercise by pressing against the elbow of the student at full draw and telling him to press back against the instructor's hand.
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Would someone please make up my mind for me?

Offline starshooter

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2018, 07:26:42 PM »
That sounds like an isometric exercise and I can see where it might help with
form collapse after the release.. I will definitely give it a try.
I was going to ask about the “ Masters of the BareBow” seeing that there are 5 DVDs
Which one would be the best  to start with? Thanks.
64” Howard Hill “Redman”  46” @26”
66” Jet Archery “Jaguar” 42#@ 26”
52” Java Man “Helms Deep”  41#@ 26”

Online moebow

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Re: Increase Draw length
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2018, 08:42:41 PM »
Get Vol 3!!  All are good but Vol 3 has what I think you need.
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

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