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Author Topic: three under tuning frustration  (Read 2231 times)

Offline dgil

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three under tuning frustration
« on: April 10, 2018, 05:43:09 PM »
So I've been bare shaft tuning my Bear MT 55@28" w/GT 400 and 125 gr field points. I'm able to get my bare shafts to group w/my fletched shafts. However, I'm hung up on nock point trouble. My bare shafts consistently fly (and land) nock high. I've adjusted my nock point down w/minimal result. I decided to move it back up and in doing so actually tried nocking above my nock point and guess what..they flew and landed straight. Obviously I moved my nock point to just above where the nock lined up when nocking above and guess what...nock high again? I'm shooting 3 under w/a glove and hold a fraction below to ensure no nock pinch...Is it a tiller issue? Am I going crazy seeking perfect bare shaft flight? (I'm trying to get by w/4.5 " feathers and want perfect arrow flight before putting broadheads into the mix)

Any thoughts suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 06:06:02 PM »
Click on knowledge base, then bow tuning.

http://www.acsbows.com/index.html

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 06:07:53 PM »

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 06:08:35 PM »

Offline dgil

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 06:17:05 PM »
Thanks for helping out. I've used both those resources to get me this far....I'll look again in case I missed something but I seem to recall the Black Widow guy saying it could be one of many things if you're stuck shooting nock high....I'll continue with the tinkering.

Offline Al Dean

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 06:19:32 PM »
Put a nock under the arrow.
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Online Roy from Pa

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 06:23:13 PM »
Times Two what Al said...

One above and one below....

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 07:18:42 PM »
Another thing is shooting three under works better if the bow was tillered for three under shooting when built.

Not saying it's mandatory, but helpful.

Another thing could be your release.

Do you get the same arrow reaction with every shot, or every so many shots?

Most guys shooting three under nock 5/8th to 3/4 above the shelf..

Mine is 5/8th.

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 07:36:26 PM »
Dean, just read your first post again.

Quote
You said: I'm able to get my bare shafts to group w/my fletched shafts. However, I'm hung up on nock point trouble. My bare shafts consistently fly (and land) nock high.

If your bare shafts are grouping with your fletched shafts.

Then that is all that counts.


Do not worry about how the arrow sticks in the target.

It's how they group that counts.

Online katman

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2018, 08:17:21 PM »
I believe Mr. Beck mentions in his video some may have difficult getting nock high out of bare shaft. Fletch up another and compare field tip to broadhead for final tuning and don't fret over bare shaft so much.

Bare shaft can be influenced a lot by grip pressure point and finger pressure distribution on string. Also three under on a bow tillered for split will usually need a higher set nocking point.
shoot straight shoot often

Online Maddog20/20

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 09:28:08 PM »
Nock high is a PITA because you never be sure if your nick is high or if it’s low and the arrow ramping off the shelf.


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Online trad_bowhunter1965

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 10:26:12 PM »
Put a nock under the arrow.
DITTO
Also if arrows are all grouping where your aiming than a little nock high is alright if you have and IPHONE you can do a so motion video. Shoot your broadheads and see if they all group and if they do your done. 
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Online Jock Whisky

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2018, 11:46:30 PM »
I had a similar problem and was getting very frustrated. I was shooting 3 under at the time. I spoke with a bowyer I know and he told me to try increasing my brace height about a quarter of an inch as a start if all else failed. Worked like a dream for me. Might for you.
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Online McDave

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2018, 10:05:42 AM »
I sympathize with your problem.  I have tuned many bows for level bare shaft flight, so I know I have good enough form and tuning skills to do that, but occasionally I have tried to tune a bow and failed.  All the ones I have succeeded on and the ones I have failed on have been high quality bows.  All I can tell you is that true nock high up to maybe 10 degrees will not cause a problem with your broadheads.  Just make sure your string nock is high enough (5/8” or more) so that you nock high is not being caused by rebounding off the shelf.  Even on bows where I can tune to perfectly level flight, I prefer a little nock high, maybe 5 degrees, because I think it is a little more forgiving of release errors.

I have done a lot of experimenting on the bows I have failed to tune, including going from 3/16” positive tiller to 3/16” negative tiller by reversing the upper and lower limbs, which hasn’t worked.  Sometimes changing bare shafts works.  I have one bow where I get a 10 degree nock high with one bare shaft and a 5 degree nock high with a different one.  Both bare shafts are the same model and spine of GT carbons, but bought at different times.  On another bow, I was able to completely eliminate the nock high by going to a different brand of arrow, but similar spine and weight.

I have always used Ken Beck’s method of bare shaft tuning, which, as I said, has worked in most cases.  However, I think there is a missing factor that I don’t understand.  I hope somebody finds out what it is while I am still shooting.
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Offline DeerSpotter

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2018, 05:44:25 PM »
I had a similar problem and was getting very frustrated. I was shooting 3 under at the time. I spoke with a bowyer I know and he told me to try increasing my brace height about a quarter of an inch as a start if all else failed. Worked like a dream for me. Might for you.

The same for me, I purchased a pika from Dan ( Montana Bows) and I was bare shafting.  I check my brace height and it was about three quarters low.  I changed it to 7 3/4. Made a world of difference. I'm using Easton Axis traditional 600's my bow is 40 # @28 & 1/2" I'm using 125 gr. target point.  TAW 405.  A little over 10 gr. PP  My bow was made for 3 under.

And yes, put your arrow under your string nock, I don't use a crimped on one, Tie one on.  The pika is one of the best bows I've shot.  I really like mine.  And take your tuning slow, I've been at mine for about two weeks now. I probably will be fletching next week. 

I haven't been shooting for about five years. (shoulder problems) So this time I decided to take it slow and follow page by page of the book that I had for a while, but gave to somebody else.  So I brought another couple copies, and decided to follow it to a T.  "Guide To The Longbow " by Brian Sorrells.
 I decided to let all those other old habits go !  And discipline myself to follow his suggestions and ideas.

I am glad I did, you can teach an old dog new tricks !!!

Most of all keep the fun in it !

Carl
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Offline dgil

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2018, 06:59:09 PM »
Great suggestions everyone. This is why I came back here. I was a trad and instinctive shooter for years, stopped practicing, went compound.... and finally found my way home. I too am having to re-learn everything. Three under, aiming, tuning, lighter bows....Just getting older has forced some slow down and change. Gave away some youth bows on this site years ago, sold an old Tim Meigs, Herters t/d, vintage Bear Kodiak...miss them all.  Nice to be welcomed back by so many helpful folks.

Look forward to being able to pass it on/forward.


Offline kenneth butler

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Re: three under tuning frustration
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2018, 10:26:49 PM »
I came to this thread late. I may have missed something. If your arrow flew fine when you nocked above the nocking point but not after you moved the nocking point there,it is because you arrow is slipping down the string after release. That is why moving the nocking point doesn't seem to help. As others have said add a nocking point below the arrow too. That should solve your problem. >>>----> Ken

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