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Author Topic: pony bow  (Read 2612 times)

Offline Madpigslayer

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pony bow
« on: August 02, 2003, 02:24:00 AM »
well...some of you know that I am going to attempt a native replica bow this summer (no time like the present to start I guess) so I have roughed it   out here.  this little bow was originaly designed to be a pony bow replica and based on a bow out of one of Jim Hamm's books (Bows and Arrows of the Native Americans) here is a link if you are interested...

 http://www.western-gift-ideas.com/history.htm

dims...48" ash, buffalo sinew backed, it will be snake backed...and since it is going to a humid climate, I am thinking of doing a non-traditional epoxy finish for moisture resistance. The grip will be either buckskin or rawhide depending on what it asks for...probably fur accents on the handle...might be on the tips too, arent sure about that one yet. The book asks for a sort of reflex/deflex type profile. I will bend that in with heat/grease. My intentions at first were to make the replica at 45 pounds or so, But to get hunting weight might mean I need a little longer bow, we will see. I think if it needs to kill a deer it might should be 55#. probably at this length it will only draw 24" and be a 15 yard or less weapon (I am guessing...have heard these are brutes on accuracy at this length) I have made arraingements for 3 as close as possible matched stone points to to be knapped to dress up 3 river cane arrow shafts I will prepare. they will be footed and nocked, ya know...just to up the difficulty...no risk, no reward. I am hanging it all out there!! a couple of turkey wings are on the way from the recipient (who shall remain nameless at this to point so as to not curse my project!) to adorn the arrows. Major mojo.

I will say at this time, that I have no idea if this thing will work or not...never done it before. If it blows up, I will use the heartwood elm stave I have just begging for the opportunity. But that is plan "B" which I wont talk of again unless I need to!

whatever, it will probably take me a long time to finish...but I dont mind long build threads! as history will show.

here is the picture again...

 http://community.webshots.com/photo/83880553/83880757BdgJfx

I just want to show it again so if my bowyer career stalls, maybe I will have a go at becoming a "foot model"   "[tunglaff]"
...gosh this is hard.

Hailey (5) 3 minutes into a pilates workout

Offline Jock

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2003, 02:38:00 AM »
Calvin,
Really enjoyed your last bowbuilding thread, looking forward to this one.
Your Scottish Brother.

Offline Steve

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2003, 06:11:00 AM »
Calvin - I just finished a 54" working recurve of osage and elk sinew. It wasn't done as a pony bow style per se. It has a stiff handle area. It is very fast, and surprisingly accurate! After applying the sinew and drying it, I epoxied silk onto the sinew then sanded it smooth. I then epoxied a snakeskin onto it, and finished with 12 coats of spar. I live in florida, and this was all done for moisture control. 48" might be a bear to shoot, but I can horse this 54" back almost 27" time after time with no ill effects - like Rsuty says - "sinew is magic"! Good luck with the project, sounds like a winner. Also, couldn't get pics to load... Steve

Offline Timo

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2003, 06:41:00 AM »
No, no ,no!That won't work!.....Entirely tooooo straight!  :D  

10-4 on the model!  :bigsmyl:  (If your gonna model um,you might think about putting some color on them nails)? Strawberry red,or moss pink rosea?  ;)  

I'll be watching!  :thumbsup:
(Enny o yuns know ware thu heart o a stumpytail izz??)

Offline the Ferret

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2003, 09:23:00 AM »
Wow sweet piece of wood Calvin. Being ash, you'll definitly need sinew to keep it together at hunting weight/draw. BTW if'n you shoot em right 45# is plenty for deer Dianne and I can show you a stack of critters we've shot with that weight bow. My fav pony bow is a little osage ditty, self backed, elkhide handle wrapped in beaver fur top and bottom with a twisted string, no serving, no nock point of course. 52" ntn and less than an inch wide 42#@27" called "Countin' Coup". I killed a turkey with it 2 or 3 years ago using a cane arrow and trade point, and have drawn on I don't know how many deer and turkey with it (which is how it got it's name). I draw it 27" and it will stack arrows at 20 yards. I took it on a deer hunt to the UP of Michigan a couple years back and had everybody in camp shooting it.

 http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/picofbowswevemade.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=173

 http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/strippingturkeyfeathers.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=730

My main deer hunting bow for this year will be "Big Bird", ostrich sinew backed osage 62" ntn 45#@27 and 1 1/8" wide. I'll be using cane arrows and flint heads this year as well.

 http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/picofbowswevemade.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=855

last year it was "Blossom" another pony bow, self backed osage with copperhead skins 59" ntn and 46#@27 1 1/8" wide. Trade point tipped, selfnocked cedar arrows.

 http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/photos1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=843

As you can tell hunting with these pony bows has become consumate fun and they give up nothing to their stiff handled brothers as a hunting bow.
There is always someone that knows more than you, and someone that knows less than you, so you can always learn and you can always teach

Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2003, 12:06:00 PM »
a few questions...first off, before I get too far into this thing, I should have mentioned that this  wood is almost completly and perfectly rift sawn. the grain is at an almost perfect 45 degrees. thing is the lines are just about pefectly straight...I seem to recall Jawge saying if the lines are straight down at least 2 sides it should be fine? I just want a little re-assurance before I get too far in.

Jock. Thank-you. I hope I can make it work.

Steve, what was the reason you put silk on the sinew, was it just to level things out a bit?

Timo? "moss pink rosea?" You are scaring the crap out of me big guy!!!  :scared:  

ferret, you are an inspiration as usual. I was thinking the 55# range because I want the bow to push stone points, that might require a little more pizzazz? I enjoyed looking at the pictures you posted. "coup" is a sweet bow.
...gosh this is hard.

Hailey (5) 3 minutes into a pilates workout

Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2003, 12:58:00 PM »
(that means it came from a BOARD! oh, the shame!)

that is why it is pefectly straight. Is that like a violation of some sort?!!!
...gosh this is hard.

Hailey (5) 3 minutes into a pilates workout

Offline hickstick

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2003, 01:15:00 PM »
nevah made a unbacked board bow m'self, but jawge oughtta know...hes made a bundle.


mickey....you got stones for  wearing blue and white plaid into the turkey woods!  :)
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

Offline trashwood

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2003, 01:59:00 PM »
well I have made a board out of a stave and then made a pony bow out of the board (de-crowned stave).  I have made a pony bow out of a red oak board, sinewed, tips lifted.  Red oak pony bow only draws 38# bout with a rive cane arrow it has been very effect on cotton tail and squirrels.  

Two yrs ago I shot the Texas Longbow Champinship with a ponybow.  No I was along ways from fetching a belt buckel but I didn't embrass myslef.  I used river cane arrows also.  

I made form boards, trunks, limbs and a few things inbetween.  I made for 75# to 35#.  They are most of what I shoot today.  I got a thng for them.  BTW I got a copule made out of hop hornbeam.  HHB makes a sooooo fine pony bow.  Got a trunk full out of hackberry.  Light in the hand, quick as a wink and sooooo handy.  Got 'em out of hickory, a few out of trees I had no idea what they were......ah I like pony bows.  The only bow I'd ever use in my hidey hole.  I ball to eye ball with a 70 pig at about 6 or 7 yds well put a different spin on the day  :)   Eye ball to eye ball with a 250#'er will test your spinchters   "[tunglaff]"  only way to get there is with a 52" pony bow

At 20 yds (hunting ranges) I just don't see how ya need anything more.  Not sure I'd shoot the colors at 90 yds with one.......but sumpin to eat at 15yds is in a lot of trouble.

Rusty

Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2003, 02:41:00 PM »
Thanks Rusty! I am looking forward to trying one out! I gotta build the stuff to try as no one here has anything like this. If my little board fails (I would say we are 50/50 with MY skills!) then I will do a 52"er outta   this bad boy.  elm. I like the looks of these little bows...I think between 15 and 20 yards is all we need to worry about here anyway. at 48" a 24" draw should be attainable with a sinew backing, right?
...gosh this is hard.

Hailey (5) 3 minutes into a pilates workout

Offline Killdeer

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2003, 08:08:00 PM »
My hopes soared 'til I saw that the recipient was sending you two wings. I haven't sent you two wings,  :thumbsup:

 
(now will you misdirect them?)

Killdeer (who has to move out because of the room taken up by unfinished projects.)
Long, long afterward, in an oak I found the arrow, still unbroke;
And the song, from beginning to end, I found again in the heart of a friend.

~Longfellow

TGMM Family Of The Bow

Offline trashwood

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2003, 08:43:00 PM »
Killdeer I like even if ya'as a lady.  Send my your draw lenght, the weight ya like to draw and I'll send ya a pony bow.

Rusty

Offline trashwood

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2003, 08:44:00 PM »
Killdeer I like even if ya'as a lady.  Send my your draw lenght, the weight ya like to draw and I'll send ya a pony bow.

Rusty

Offline trashwood

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2003, 08:45:00 PM »
opps i didn't like ya enought to post it twice  :)   sorry I must double clutched

Rsuty

Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2003, 10:07:00 PM »
Mail Mom! it sounds to me like ya got one anyways LOL! welcome to the hang out of the nicest people on earth. (I would take him up on that offer BTW!)

put on pants? and here I thought you guys would pick up on the humour of my Pablo impression! it was pretty subtle...!

Now Rsuty...what about my draw length question? Am I alright with 24"draw with a 48"bow?
...gosh this is hard.

Hailey (5) 3 minutes into a pilates workout

Offline the Ferret

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2003, 10:34:00 PM »
Dear Naked in Canada...

Not Rsuty but yepper specially if it's sinew backed, can probably get 26" draw out of it.

Hickstick, it's actually grey and white. I hunt for color blind turkeys thats why I only kill one a decade    :rolleyes:  

Killdeer...having been the recipient of Rusty's generosity on more than one occassion myself, I can tell you you're in for a treat. The man has a heart bigger than Texas.
There is always someone that knows more than you, and someone that knows less than you, so you can always learn and you can always teach

Offline Steve

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2003, 10:41:00 PM »
Calvin - I used the silk as you said, to level things out. Actually, it was something to keep the epoxy from running all over. I actually scraped just about all of it off, there's only a little left to fill the voids.

  I just cam in from shooting that bow, and I gotta tell ya, these little shorty's are the way to go fer up close hoggin'.Steve

Offline Frank

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2003, 12:29:00 AM »
Calvin,

Nice looking stave.  Little straight, I guess thats good.  Haven't worked a straight one in awhile.

Here is a pic of the last two pony bows I made awhile back.  I am out of the pony bow phase now.

The top bow is a 48" osage 45lb at 27" bow.  It has 8 layers of elk leg sinew and a deer leg sinew wrap.

The bottom bow is 52" elm 55lb at 27" bow.  It also has 8 layers of sinew.

  http://www.hornbow.com/frank.html  

I'm not out of the sinew stage yet, or ever I hope.  Currently working on a 58" sinewed back osage snaky bow.  It also has 8 layers of sinew.

Just like the 8 layers for some reason.

Let us know how your bow goes.

Oh by the way, what kind of epoxy are you going to use?  I have in the past poly'd the bow many times over and then waxed.

Frank
Can't cheat the mountain,
Mountain got it.

Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2003, 02:08:00 AM »
Frank, no idea what about the epoxy...will be my first attempt, was thinking of copying Steve's way. It's to be a little impervious (how ya like that word eh?) to moisture. It's gonna live in the higher moisture part of the world.

As for my bow being "straight" it is my understanding that "there is nothing wrong with that" (only half the people will get that attempt at humour)

nice bows by the way, why ya outta the stage?

calvin-wearing clothes-peters
...gosh this is hard.

Hailey (5) 3 minutes into a pilates workout

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: pony bow
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2003, 08:08:00 AM »
Calvin, the side grain is what matters in a board. If the grain lines run parallel to the back for the length of the board it is an almost perfect board and capable of much. Same rules apply to determining the length of a board or stave bow with this tyep of good  ring orientation. Can you draw an unbacked 48 inch bow 24 inches? I don't think so. If backed with sinew then maybe. Ends would have to be curved or reflexed to keep the string on tho.
Jawge

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