Shooters Forum

Contribute to Trad Gang
Become a Trad Gang Sponsor





Author Topic: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!  (Read 2411 times)

Offline deermaster1

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 325
no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« on: April 07, 2008, 03:12:00 PM »
i have been struggling with instinctive shooting. when i snapshoot, i shoot really great, but i have convinced myself that "one day"  ill have to draw and hoooooold for the shot of a lifetime at some trophy.  whne i hold, it breaks the rythem of the shot for me and i just dont shoot well.  its not target panic, but a break in my concentration.  well anyway, i just got fred asbells instinctive shooting video.  guess what. he snap shoots.  i also got rick welchs hunting video, and kill after kill, he never had to to hold to get the animal in the right position.  he just drew, settled in and shot.  probably 20 kills in the video and all of them were in the right position to shoot even before he drew.  so now im shooting better then ever knowing im doing it the right way, and wont have to hold at full draw.  what do you guys think?
"I dont want my country to do anything for me, I want to do everything I can do for my country"~~~Ted Nugent

Online woodchucker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 4531
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2008, 03:31:00 PM »
The real key to consistant shooting.....is a consistant anchor point.

It really makes no differance how long you "hold" only that you hit your anchor point before releasing. What happens to alot of people who "snapshoot" is that they develope a "premature" release,and don't consistantly hit thier anchor point,usualy releasing before (sometimes WAY before) they hit thier anchor point. Just something to be aware of.....

If you're consistantly hitting your anchor point,and "snapshooting" seems to be working for you.....

Snapshoot AWAY!!!!!!!!!!   :thumbsup:
There is a fine line between Hunting, & Sitting there looking Stupid...

May The Great Spirit Guide Your Arrows..... Happy Hunting!!!

Offline deermaster1

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 325
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2008, 03:38:00 PM »
yep, after watching bowhunters of trad gang, terry helped me alot with a double anchor.  by using this, i know when im at anchor and when im at anchor, i know my arrow is aimed and ready to go!
"I dont want my country to do anything for me, I want to do everything I can do for my country"~~~Ted Nugent

Offline Steertalker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 380
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2008, 05:38:00 PM »
When athletes train for an event, say.....to break a record, they do what I call overtraining.  For instance, if the record long jump is 26 feet....an olympic long jumper will train in such a way so as to attemp to jump 27,28 feet or more.  He does this because it will prepare him for the heat of competition when a jump of 26 and 1/2 inch is more of a reality and will do the job.  He does not restrict his training to just 26 feet.

May I suggest that you do the same and condition your brain to hold at anchor for maybe 3 seconds or whatever.  Get to a point in your shooting where you can do this with ease and maintain accuracy.  By doing this you are preparing yourself for the "heat of battle" so to speak.  It will insure that you reach full draw, even if just for an instant, on a live animal thus producing the same shot you're used to in your backyard.

Hope that makes sense,

Brett
"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold:  its patriotism, its morality and its spiritual like.  If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Joseph Stalin

Offline Bender

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 46
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2008, 07:32:00 PM »
20 shots. 20 kills. Already in position for each and every shot. Hmmmmm. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with how the film was editted could it.

Offline grimlad

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 9
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2008, 10:29:00 PM »
Can someone explain the double anchor to me please?   Is it a double reference point at anchor?

Thanks!
Chek-Mate Crusader 66"

Offline Aaron Proffitt

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2008, 10:42:00 PM »
Why is anybody giving this guy pointers ?He likes the way he's shooting,he's happy with his results.
"First thing we do,let's kill all the lawyers".
Shakespeare Henry VI, Part 2

Does an agnostic,dyslexic,insomniac lie awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog ?

Offline deermaster1

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 325
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2008, 09:02:00 AM »
grimland, a double anchor is taking a basic anchor like corner of the mouth, and adding another referencce point like 3rd finger under jaw or a knuckle on your earlobe or touching the fletching to your nose.  it is just another step to being consistent.
aaron profit, i am AWAYS open for pointers.  i was just happy to see a great shooter who shoots like i shoot.  it just let me know that i am on the right track.  ALWAYS looking for help to become a better shot....
"I dont want my country to do anything for me, I want to do everything I can do for my country"~~~Ted Nugent

Offline Tilzbow

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 165
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 10:12:00 AM »
deermaster1,

I began my traditional shooting 15+ years ago by reading Asbell's books and quickly became a snap shooter. His books do contain some great advice but I developed the quick release promoted within the books before I had the other fundamentals down. Within a year or two this turned into a horrible case of target panic when I started shooting in competition and hunting. Steerstalker alluded to this in his post. It took me 10+ years to beat the target panic and this year is the first year I feel I'm completely over it. BTW - I now hold at full draw for 1 to 5 seconds and the time depends on how long it takes for the proper sight picture to develop.

I used several methods to get over the target panic and snap shooting including using a clicker for over two straight years and I took those off my bows this spring.

An excellent exercise to condition your mind and body to hold at full draw is to get a really light bow (20 lbs or less) or make one out of a long piece (+70") of PVC pipe and a piece of strong string. Using your own hunting weight bow can cause shoulder injuries so I don't recommend that (personal experience!). You've got to have a multi spot target or several small "targets" to "aim" at. Now draw back and focus on a spot, then move to a different spot, then a different spot, and so on. Then eventually let down. Doing this for several weeks you'll short circuit the hard wiring of your mind releasing just as you hit full draw that can be created by snap shooting. I learned of this technique and several others in Jay Kidwell's book "Instinctive Archery Insights" and he does a much better job describe it and why it's done than I do here.
One man thinks he can, the other doesn't. Both are right!

Offline Aaron Proffitt

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2008, 12:19:00 PM »
Brett,
I think when deermaster1 asked what "What do you guys think ?",I think it was a rhetorical question.
Look,you guys that consistently shoot in the manner that is often seen on the Olympic line or at FITA shoots have a good thing going and I won't disparage that form.However,that's ONE way to shoot a bow.
 One of the reasons I love the longbow is because of the versatility it offers.I can shoot it prone,sitting,at odd angles,and I can engage moving and stationary targets.All this is possible because I love to shoot and consequently shoot alot.
  With that being said,in the 25 years I have been shooting a recurve/longbow(save for about 4 years in my teens when speed was King) I have learned three important factors that are key for me.
1.A well tuned bow.If the arrows are flipping and turning you'll never get a feel for what the bow is capable of.
2.A rigid bow arm.This is your gun barrel,man.If it's off,your whole shot'll go to pieces.
3.Complete and utter focus on your 'spot'.I am often not even aware of my drawing sequence,despite that after years of thinking that I am a 'purely instinctive'shooter;I  became aware of the fact that I am actually a bit of a 'split-vision' guy.As I bring my bow arm up and begin my draw,I almost subconciously see my arrow in my periphery and then draw continues until my fletch disappears from my peripherial vision...then ....BAM !!...away goes death on a stick.The only reaon,and I do mean the only reason,the bow is drawn is to send the arrow down range.My draw plays no part in my aim.I use almost the same doctrine that applied back when I was part of marksman/observer team.The shot should surprise you.And it does.
Now,having said all that;that is ONE way to shoot a bow.It works for me.I can place my arrows almosy anywhere I want to out to around 30 yards or so.All the while,my hold at anchor is little more than a  tab brushing my cheek.So,for anyone to suggest that holding at anchor is imperative to executing an accurate,clean shot...well...I'd suggest otherwise.

And to suggest to a guy who is pleased with his shooting, that he should change it is in pretty poor taste.
"First thing we do,let's kill all the lawyers".
Shakespeare Henry VI, Part 2

Does an agnostic,dyslexic,insomniac lie awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog ?

Offline Diamond Paul

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 928
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2008, 07:32:00 PM »
Like I said, those great traditional shooters do all the things Olympic shooters do, they just don't take as long to do it!  Master the fundamentals of shooting first; develop a consistent anchor and use proper back tension to fire the shot.  As alluded to above, the bow arm is crucial to accuracy, so use back tension to lock it in.  When you master these fundamentals, you can shoot fast or slow, whichever one feels right to you.  Paul.
“Sometimes the shark go away, sometimes he wouldn’t go away.” Quint, from Jaws

Offline NDTerminator

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1181
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2008, 09:04:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by woodchucker:
The real key to consistant shooting.....is a consistant anchor point.

It really makes no differance how long you "hold" only that you hit your anchor point before releasing. What happens to alot of people who "snapshoot" is that they develope a "premature" release,and don't consistantly hit thier anchor point,usualy releasing before (sometimes WAY before) they hit thier anchor point. Just something to be aware of.....

 
That's probably the best explanation I have ever read.  Good job!...  :thumbsup:
"As Trad as I wanna be"

"It's all just archery, and all archery is good"

Offline Whump

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 123
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2008, 02:18:00 AM »
Whump Sez; The big question is----have you killed a deer or taken any game shooting like that--you know snap shooting? I took a 147and 5/8 whitetail and a turkey  with a snap shot but I learned both ways. It is a good thing to know how to snap shoot because the time will come when you shoot fast or miss the opportunity and the shot could be a once in a lifetime shot. Don't decide that is the only way to shoot--just use it and try not to lose it but practice the draw and hold shot to keep your form intact, because the accurate snap shot will depend on good form.  Hunt safe.   :thumbsup:

Online Ben Maher

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 3657
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2008, 02:36:00 AM »
i shoot a whole lot better than the guys i go hunting/shooting with. i am considered a snap shooter...i do pull thru my release and don't seem to collapse too much.
however we video'd ourselves shooting....whilst i speed shoot/ snap apparently {i always shoot quite quickly} it became readily apparent that i alone was consistently hitting anchor.
good bow arm and hit ya anchor and you can't go wrong.
whatever works for you eh?

cheers

ben
" All that is gold does not glitter , not all those who wander are lost "
J.R.R TOLKIEN

Offline Aaron Proffitt 2

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 178
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2008, 11:38:00 AM »
I didn't really get the impression that he was 'snap-shooting'  ,per se.Shooting quick,perhaps.But not nec. snap shooting.
Chris,and others,have made the important distinction between the two.A quick controlled shot doesn't need be a hindrance.

Offline Bill Tell

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 400
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2008, 04:41:00 PM »
I was worried to that I was letting go to fast.
"I'm going to find my direction magnetically. " Eddie Vedder

Offline blueslfb

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 350
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2008, 05:59:00 PM »
I find that when I shoot at animals the shot happen quite fast and there seems to be no holding at full draw. As far as I can tell anyway.  The shot just happens, BUT when I am shooting in the back yard or somewhere else I tens to hold for a few seconds.  I don't know why but maybe when I am shooting at animal I am so focused on the SPOT muscle memory takes over and the shot happens.  

If your "snapshooting" works for you then by all means do it.  Don't let anyone tell you you are shooting wrong (unless you can't hit a barn when your in it).  Go to a trad shoot or any shoot for that matter and watch all the different styles and you will see no two people shoot exactly the same. We are all going to the same place but we all may take different routes.  Bottom line if your styles works for you, keep doing that way. Just my 2 cents maybe 3.

Offline chuck172

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 67
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2008, 12:13:00 PM »
Coming to full draw can be a real pain in the @ss to me. It's amazing how there seems to be a devil on my left shoulder stopping me from just reaching my anchor and an angel on my right shoulder telling me to keep pulling, keep pulling.
I can come to anchor if I aim at a spot I don't intend to shoot, or if I close my eyes while drawing, I have no problem. But if I begin my aim with a straight bow arm which I need to do, that devil always seems to pop up.

Offline laddy

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 497
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2008, 03:29:00 PM »
One can flinch when holding or releasing quickly.  there are are those who cannot shoot well in a crowd, but get as smooth as a bobcat when they are hunting.  For that type of shooter they are probably better with a standard longbow.  At 3D events the long holders with recurves tend to win, but out hunting they do well out of tree stands at standing deer.  Much the same as compound shooters do.  For us ground hunters, we need a more flexible form to give the most options for the wider variety of shots we take.

Offline bayoulongbowman

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 3766
Re: no need to hold!! snapshoot away!
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2008, 03:47:00 PM »
I agree with Paul snap shooting is not for most, now hitting anchor and check offs, quickly to me is not the same thing of what most refer to snap shooting . Having watched the TG video many times now ( good one too) Terry gives great points on aligement, by the way I watched Terry shooting , to me thats not snapshooting. I think when you hit anchor, ur brain sends you the signal to release, of course , ur release is important also...good shooting.. :)
"If you're living your life as if there is no GOD, you had  better be right!"

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2020 ~ Trad Gang.com ©