I am the guy at work everyone brings there knives too. I can sharpen a file into a usable knife. Two blade double bevel broadheads no problem. Magnus 1's with a small file and 5 minutes they shave hair.
single bevel grizzly's (old style) I have only ever gotten 1 to be close to hunting sharp. I don't even know how I did it. I don't understand? I have even sat down with a fellow member here years ago to learn how to sharpen them. the newer ones are fine but I cant get the old style close. I have so many of them I don't want to just toss them.
multiple files, jigs, free hand. Doesn't matter.
I have watched every video there is out there. Nothing helps!
One might say: just keep hunting with double bevel heads.
The last couple deer I killed were double lung shot deer under 10 yards. complete pass throughs. Both with muzzy 200gr phantoms. ZERO BLOOD TRAILS! Found by grid searching, im done with that.
for the love of all that is holy in this universe there has GOT to be a way for me to get these dang things shaving sharp.
I would like to know also
Buy ron at kme sharpeners broadhead sharpener and let him walk you through it and you will shave hair in minutes...95% of the sharpening is done on the beveled side
I will never understand why you cant just buy them hunting sharp out of the package?
QuoteOriginally posted by caleb7mm:
I will never understand why you cant just buy them hunting sharp out of the package?
What are you going to do after you shoot them and they are dulled a bit?
With the old ones the easiest way is to push them into a big file clamped to a bench.. There is a tutorial in the how to section. It takes a bit of work on the old ones. Once the bevel is set knock the burr off on a ceramic rod or strop. Make sure the flat side really is flat too. Some of them I have had to lay the nonbevel side flat on the file and true it up a little. I wouldn't want to do theiinitial work on a brand new old Grizzly with Kme broadhead sharpener even with a xx course diamond stone. Pretty sure Ron will recommend starting with a file also. Once the initial file work is done the kme will work great.
Caleb,
I just started using single bevel this year. This video my Clay Hayes (which you may have already seen) helped - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5umxVy7uhLM
but... what actually ended up working for me was free handing on this stone...
(http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h344/timsalters/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-08%20at%209.40.37%20PM_zpsoq4lbx8h.png) (http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/timsalters/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-08%20at%209.40.37%20PM_zpsoq4lbx8h.png.html)
I just wet the stone with spit and with the broadhead already mounted on an arrow, I hold on the angle and push. It's pretty easy to keep the angle because the head is basically resting on the ferrel. I can get it shaving with this single stone... no further steps required.
Nothing special about this stone... as you can see it's pretty cheep. You just need a stone that aggressive enough to get the burr off.
I'm certainly no expert but it worked for me.
I can't figure out how to get any single bevel sharp! The double bevels work just fine for me, so I quit trying on the single bevels!
Bisch
I finally got into the Grizzly BH this year and struggled a bit before I finally clicked and got it...
My sharpening process looks like this:
1. sharpie color the bevel (remark occasionally)
2. hit it with file
3. then to Smiths Diamond Benstone... orange and yellow side w/honing oil
4. work it with a rod and then
5 strop on leather or cardboard... I think this is crux.
Seems like a lot of steps and I could probably cut out the file or the benchstone and use one or the other... but there it is.
Mine are now really sharp and had a pass through on a deer this fall.
Abowyers and Tuffheads are hunting sharp out of the package. The paper wheel that goes on a bench grinder is an amazing tool. KME is excellent as Jarrod says talk to Ron and he will spend time with you until you "get it". One thing I learned that helped was you do all the work with the corsets stone. The rest just polish.
You guys are making this way to hard.Accursharp cost 10-12 dollars pulled back to front once edge is set a few light passes is all you need.
QuoteOriginally posted by caleb7mm:
One might say: just keep hunting with double bevel heads.
The last couple deer I killed were double lung shot deer under 10 yards. complete pass throughs. Both with muzzy 200gr phantoms. ZERO BLOOD TRAILS! Found by grid searching, im done with that.
I seriously doubt a single bevel would have made an appreciable difference if that was the only variable. Some killing shots just don't bleed that much. I can why 2 in a row would be frustrating, but it can happen with any broadhead.
The great thing about traditional archery is that there is no ONE way to do anything... it lends itself to many approaches that work, depending on one's definition of "success".
I had trouble with the double bevel. Got the KME. Ron talked me thru it.
As Steve pointed out, I was getting frustrated with the coarsest stone and switched BEFORE I raised a wire edge... bad juju!
Once I got that thru my stubborn head, things went better. FForward to Single Bevel. Same thing. Have to raise a wire.
When you have the unbeveled side showing a wire, taking off that wire actually "sharpens" that side a 'wee' bit! Not a true double bevel, but think about it, you have to get that wire, then the wire off, so it's sharpening the other side too!
Recently visited a friend who had trouble with some Grizzly heads getting them sharp. I had trouble with the old diamond stones years ago and got the new ones from Ron..Wow!
I had his heads very sharp. He was amazed! Whatever he was doing with another brand, there was just too much variance between strokes where the KME keeps a very precise angle using the knife or Broad Head sharpener (I have and use both).
Good stones, aggressive cut, removes metal. Often the bevel isn't exact or uniform on most affordable heads... that black marker really makes a difference in seeing what needs removed or where it's being removed.
I strive for 25* setting, but sometimes it creates a "compound edge" cause the original bevel is say 30* and only the very edge gets the 25* which is fine...
Good luck!
QuoteOriginally posted by caleb7mm:
I will never understand why you cant just buy them hunting sharp out of the package?
Price point. We could sell the Grizzly's shaving sharp and do when a customer requests it. Most guys would rather sharpen the heads themselves and save the money.
You mentioned the new Grizzly's don't give you any fits. That is because they come with a burr already on them. What you need to do is get your old ones to that point.To do this use your roughest stone or a file to remove the steel. If you would prefer you can send them to us and we will regrind your old style Grizzly's on our machines. Then they would have a burr and you can start from there. Of course I can not regrind your heads for free but the charge would be very reasonable.
If you prefer to give me a call and we will talk through the process.
Exactly right, you need to get a burr first and then you remove the burr and it will be sharp enough to hunt with. They frustrated me at first until I figured this out. The KME and a extra course diamond stone makes this pretty easy to do.
Right now I use the muzzy phantoms and palmer extreme cut broad heads and so far the blood trails have been great.
There you go Caleb7mm ^^^ send them to Bill. Grinding metal isn't free. Like Bill says most want to save the money initially. If you want to do it yourself, call Ron at KME, he is such a great dude he will help you even if you don't have or buy any of his products. I will tell you, I was struggling also a few years back. I found out that my old stones just weren't capable any longer of doing the job. I got new diamond stones and walla everything I sharpened from then on got super sharp!
At least I'm not the only one who has had trouble here. I have only tried the old style Grizzly. I could get it kinda sharp but never could get that really keen edge I wanted. My solution? I went back to Zwickies. Besides, I just don't buy the notion that single bevels are that much better, because I have finally learned to get double edged heads shaving sharp without great difficulty. Stick 'em in the lights, and the animal goes down.
The most common mistake I've seen over the years with old Grizzlies and now Tuskers is not getting completely through the bevel with the file. Guys will get crazy close then stop 'cause they think they are there. Of course you need a consistent angle all the way through as well. That is for those who are using a file (which you should be), another big mistake is attacking those heads with something like a KME or other sharpener to start out. Great sharpeners but they are for finishing, not removing large amounts of steel like you need to do at first.
Another common mistake is not cleaning off the back side once you get all the way through the top.
Nice thing about those old Grizzlies and Tuskers is once you get them sharp they are crazy sharp and tend to stay that way, and touch ups are a breeze. It's just the first time around that gives most people fits.
QuoteOriginally posted by KentuckyTJ:
There you go Caleb7mm ^^^ send them to Bill. Grinding metal isn't free. Like Bill says most want to save the money initially. If you want to do it yourself, call Ron at KME, he is such a great dude he will help you even if you don't have or buy any of his products. I will tell you, I was struggling also a few years back. I found out that my old stones just weren't capable any longer of doing the job. I got new diamond stones and walla everything I sharpened from then on got super sharp!
Better yet just get new stock from Bill and sell the old ones. Everything he does he finds just a little bit better way to do it. You have a lot of good options here :thumbsup:
KME broadhead sharpener and a leather strop on a 1x4 base work REALLY well for me on my single bevel broadheads. Scary sharp.
Nothing wrong with single bevel... I always shoot for the boiler but plan for errant shots. I have more double bevel kills then single bevel, but the 2 I had with single bevel when I skinned them and cut them open, looked like they were hit with a ballistic tip bullet! :eek:
Sharp has done it well for eons...so sharp is where you start... but single bevel is no harder to get sharp, just slightly different technique.
The ones I did for my friend recently were the older Grizzly... 25* only touched the very edge of them. That's what needs to be sharp... and the NEW Gold series diamond from KME surely made it work well!
I have had Tuskers...also very hard steel like Grizzly... but were KME ground and sold thru Braveheart. Touching up with KME is slick and quick. I tried some raw and about wore myself out... and the OLD diamond stones weren't cutting the steel...I've had to dispose of those wore out critters! :(
Bill's new set up and heads are my next stop. NOthing like having them already set with the right bevel! Which is the hard part of sharpening!
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve O:
[/qb]
Better yet just get new stock from Bill and sell the old ones. Everything he does he finds just a little bit better way to do it. You have a lot of good options here :thumbsup: [/qb][/QUOTE]
Agree with Steve ^^^
Great heads. Great blood trails and in my opinion fly better than any head I have used. I will bet that what ever you are doing, your doing it to hard.
I use the card board wheel system and the carbide sharpener when in the field. The Razor Sharp at
www.grizzly.com (http://www.grizzly.com) is the ticket. Most times 30-45 seconds and I'm hairless
I bought a 6 pack, and tried them this season. I had a hard time at first, I ruined the first one. I decided to stick them in the kme knife sharpener, and after some work, they are the scariest sharp heads I have used. I finished them on a green strop from the knife company, and they went over the top sharp. I could easily shave with them. The one I sent through my buck this year just got stropped and is back in the quiver. I`m pretty impressed, been shooting snuffers and stingers for a long time, I`ll be using the grizzz for a while.
Flattening the back is key. It's impossible to remove the burr with a file if you don't have the back flattened. Takes some work but once you are there they are MONEY!
I will buy all your old ones
okay, finally home from work.
I got somewhere today on these. Took my old lead body file with me. I spent some time on the flat side getting them FLAT.
then I mounted them in a jig and put it in the vice. Took my mill bastrd file out and went to work. I went until I had a good foil edge. then I went a little farther with a smooth stone.
then to my strop (saddle leather). I was able by going back and forth slowly to get the foil edge to roll off. They still don't feel as sharp as they should for some reason? maybe its just me
They will not get scary sharp if you do not wipe the burr off from the non bevel side. I say wipe the burr off because you do not want to use much pressure with your stone.
I made a jig for a 6x48 belt sander to flatten the bevel to 25 degrees or so. I use 120 grit for this. After bevel is set I use a worksharp wheel with a 600 grit diamond grinder to touch them up and then made a leather strop to screw down on the wheel to finish them. It takes me about 1 min each to get then shaving sharp with a perfectly homed mirror finish bevel this way.
I was in the same boat as you. I could get almost any broadhead hair plowing sharp but single bevels had my number. I could raise a burr but when I went to wipe it off as Bill is saying it would just roll back to the other side. I'd flip it over and it just went back and forth. I never could get it to come off leaving that scary sharp edge. What finally worked for me was to do 99% of the work on the single bevel side. Once the burr is raised I use a fine stone and light pressure to sharpen both sides like a double bevel...same number of strokes on each side then strop on leather. Doing it this way creates a tiny bevel on the off side which is almost not even noticeable and has no effect on the way the single bevel rotates in the target. This may not be the correct way but it's the only way I can get them sharp and once I started doing it this way I could instantly get them sharper than any other head.
QuoteOriginally posted by DarkTimber:
I was in the same boat as you. I could get almost any broadhead hair plowing sharp but single bevels had my number. I could raise a burr but when I went to wipe it off as Bill is saying it would just roll back to the other side. I'd flip it over and it just went back and forth. I never could get it to come off leaving that scary sharp edge. What finally worked for me was to do 99% of the work on the single bevel side. Once the burr is raised I use a fine stone and light pressure to sharpen both sides like a double bevel...same number of strokes on each side then strop on leather. Doing it this way creates a tiny bevel on the off side which is almost not even noticeable and has no effect on the way the single bevel rotates in the target. This may not be the correct way but it's the only way I can get them sharp and once I started doing it this way I could instantly get them sharper than any other head.
Thank you for the clarification! That is exactly the way I do it and the way I suggest to others do it. I guess I was not clear. That is why it is best to call with questions.
QuoteOriginally posted by DarkTimber:
I was in the same boat as you. I could get almost any broadhead hair plowing sharp but single bevels had my number. I could raise a burr but when I went to wipe it off as Bill is saying it would just roll back to the other side. I'd flip it over and it just went back and forth. I never could get it to come off leaving that scary sharp edge. What finally worked for me was to do 99% of the work on the single bevel side. Once the burr is raised I use a fine stone and light pressure to sharpen both sides like a double bevel...same number of strokes on each side then strop on leather. Doing it this way creates a tiny bevel on the off side which is almost not even noticeable and has no effect on the way the single bevel rotates in the target. This may not be the correct way but it's the only way I can get them sharp and once I started doing it this way I could instantly get them sharper than any other head.
Thats what I do as well. Couldn't have been spoken better, good job DarkTimber.
That is how I remember Ron telling me to do it...when I do the stroke on non-bevel side it is at a high angle as well...not flat like some furniture builders will do their scrapers and other tools. This way it takes off the burr using very light pressure where you can feel the burr grapping the stone/file and then it releases when removed. As stated..almost like a VERY VERY thin edge on that side compared to bevel side.
I will try this
way worse? the head I just tried this on is now dull as a spoon. raised a burr, used a fine stone to finish it off.
I don't have a single bevel broadhead that will cut a hair.
this is actually frustrating to the point of not wanting to hunt now.
Do you have them flat on the back? If not, you might die trying to get them sharp.
For me, it was always an "operator error". In my case,in trying any "free hand" style, I was inadvertently changing the angle ever so slightly and lack of consistency kept me defeated.
Once Ron got a hold of me with the KME knife and / or Broad Head sharpener, each stroke was EXACTLY the same.
I also had to learn to let the tool and stones do the work and ease up on pressure... I was also being too forceful with even the KME at first...
Hate this for you... :o :mad:
Hey Caleb...hang in there bro and don't give up. :banghead: What finally worked for me was after lightly working up a burr with my file on the beveled side (not the entire bevel but just the edge), I then put my file on the bench with the tang of the file towards me. I then placed the flat side of the broadhead on the file and made quick, short pulls toward me to wipe off most of the burr. (these are left bevel, newly man.) Then take your file and LIGHTLY wipe the bevel side again, and then go back to the file flat again with LIGHT pressure. After going back and forth with less pressure each time, I then strop on cardboard. This is not a "smooth shaving edge" but will easily cut hair and your arm if not careful.
There is also a good post on 9-17-15, titled "problems sharpening grizzly". Read the way that Ray Hammonds does it. I hope this helps.
I was having the same problems with the "old style " heads. For me the most important thing was to make sure the flat side is flat and it took more then I thought to get some of them Flat! Not as much of an issue with the new ones. Once I had them flat and established the bevel with a file, I finished them on a diamond stone. These will get scary sharp with the flat side being flat.
its been 2 years and I haven't hunted with my trad gear simply because I can NOT get these sharp still!
I sold off my old style years ago. All I have are the "new" ones.
Who can I send them to so I can get them sharpened enough to hunt?
I cannot for the life of me figure out why this is such a hard thing for me and so many others!
I have free handed, used jigs, used a vice, used files, stones anything and everything you could ever think of to sharpen a single freaking broadhead!
1" x 30" Harbor Freight belt sander and a selection of 400 to 1000 grit belts. They make leather strop belts 1"x 30" for it also. Finish with the leather strop belt w polishing compound. I don't nock the burr off the back until I get to the leather strop. The heads get mirror smooth and dangerously sharp effortlessly. I had to do 12 new ones the just before going un a hunting trip 2 weeks ago. I did all 12 in about an hour. But until the last 3 I was swapping belts and doing each head to completion before that. I had intended to make a jig to maintain the correct angle but found it unnecessary. With a little finesse and marking the factory angle with a sharpie, you can easily keep an accurate original angle. I made some poor shots recently and attribute recovered deer to the penetration properties of the grizzly heads and extreme sharpness.
Tedd
I have a bunch of Grizzly's; I have not found one that I can't sharpen with a file yet. Maybe I dont have any old ones.
Get a burr, then lightly remove it.
When I am removing it, I do not push directly into the blade, more like quartering into it.
It's probably all wrong, but I get them sharp.
If you have the old ones there is a trick that I learned on a video from "King Would Be". The non bevel side of some of the old broadheads needed to be filed flat. At a micro level it could be a bit wavy which would make sharpening nearly impossible. I tried it and was amazed to see the file take metal off some of the flat surface but not other parts of it. Once I got the back side filed flat I went to work on the beveled side. I used a felt marker to show me what metal was being removed, kept the bevel angle constant and finished with a leather strop and jewellers rouge. I couldn't believe how sharp I got them.
FWIW. I just bought a Workshop electric sharpener and can finally get my blades as sharp as I want. It was a major humbling as a bu'suns mate on a tin can to not be able to get the cutting blade on my knife SHARP sharp. I took consolation in the posts of much more experienced and accomplished hunters and outdoorsmen than I who said they also are challenged in this aspect of their life. I just got the basic model and could not be happier with it.
thanks guys! im sending them off! I look forward to having them back ready to hunt.
Id take Zipper bows up on their generous offer. Once the grind is close to being right the kme system is the solution. Ron at kme is a great guy and as others have said will literally talk you through shaving sharp results.
I've got a borrowed KME right now and an trying it out on some Grizzlys but I'm having trouble getting them super sharp. What angle do you guys sharpen your grizzlys at?
Ron at KME told me the best way to sharpen the older Grizzlies is to change the bevel angle to match the newer ones. I use a curved tooth file like the ones used in auto body work. Secure the file to a board and put a thin piece of wood the same height as the file flush with edge of the file. Secure the old style BH in the KME clamp. Use the same motion as if you're sharpening the BH, but on the file, keeping the roller parallel to the file (it doesn't roll but slides, creating the black line as in the photo below). Continue until the angle of the bevel matches the KME. Now just sharpen on the KME and you have sharp Grizzlies. (This is my explanation of Ron's idea.)
(http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s331/selfbow19953/Grizzly-04.jpg) (http://s509.photobucket.com/user/selfbow19953/media/Grizzly-04.jpg.html)