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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: KentuckyTJ on December 02, 2015, 02:39:00 PM

Title: The Camo Question???
Post by: KentuckyTJ on December 02, 2015, 02:39:00 PM
Well this of course has been covered a thousand times here but my two cents has always been it doesn't matter what camo patten as long as you match your background. And I don't mean the pattern to match, I mean if you have a light background wear something light and if your background is dark wear something dark. The reason for that is I have experienced it is more difficult for a deer to make out my movement of drawing a bow when I am wearing a dark coat or shirt on a dark background. In turn that movement is seen way better if a light shirt (or arm) is against a dark background or vice versa.

Another thing is I always lean to a dark garment over the lighter ones in my area as when the light is new or fading all backgrounds are dark and that is usually when the encounter with the mature deer happen.

When buying any new garment I take this all into account.

  (http://i63.tinypic.com/zvxvlv.jpg)

Now here are the color pics of these jackets from the examples above for our comparison.

  (http://i67.tinypic.com/25f7zhk.jpg)

  (http://i66.tinypic.com/25qrokk.jpg)

  (http://i68.tinypic.com/16hujad.jpg)

  (http://i68.tinypic.com/33e1wrr.jpg)

  (http://i68.tinypic.com/9ar6kp.jpg)

  (http://i65.tinypic.com/vql4kk.jpg)
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: Archer1977 on December 02, 2015, 02:46:00 PM
Makes sense. Is ASAT considered light or dark? I think it does not necessarily "blend" well, but it is effective at breaking up your outline.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: mlsthmpsn on December 02, 2015, 02:56:00 PM
Matching the background is important, but equally so is breaking up the human form/outline with contrasting colors...this form of camo is called "disruptive coloration" and is what abounds in nature from stripped tigers and zebras, to spotted frogs and salamanders. This is also the process of effective face painting, where you darken high points (nose/lips) and lighten low points (around eyes).

Combining disruption by contrast with a color that matches the background, you get pretty good concealment.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: Stumpkiller on December 02, 2015, 04:10:00 PM
One of my favorite patterns - and I don't know why you don't see more like it - is the large Winona pattern.  Rather than looking like a big dark person it breaks up the outline with lights and darks.

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/stumpshoot17APR11-1.jpg)

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/1397960156_zps11479d7a.jpg)  


Saw someone (almost) in a white ghillie suit that had a few dark fibers and hanks.  Wow!  That absolutely disappears in snowy woods.  

Of course, it does have it's drawbacks.

  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61MPeYxo55L.jpg)
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: Orion on December 02, 2015, 04:33:00 PM
Good stuff.  Definitely more important to match the general background.  

"Another thing is I always lean to a dark garment over the lighter ones in my area as when the light is new or fading all backgrounds are dark and that is usually when the encounter with the mature deer happen."

I dunno. I generally find too many camo garments to be too dark, even in fading/low light.  I definitely want a lighter garment if I'm in a tree.  Even in fading/low light, it's a lot brighter if you look up.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: Michael Salter on December 02, 2015, 04:38:00 PM
Interesting photos from KentuckyTJ. I use a variety of camo patterns to match the coloration for the woods around me when I bowhunt. But when I am out during firearms season, I wear a blaze orange camo vest for safety. I "thought" it blended in pretty well while still giving other hunters a warning that there was a human in that bush. I guess from the black & white photo, I am wrong about the game perspective although it looks to be better if there would be snow on the ground.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: mlsthmpsn on December 02, 2015, 05:30:00 PM
You have to remember that B&W photos is not really an accurate representation of how deer actually see. The can see color somewhat, and our blaze orange looks more like what a faded yellow looks like to us. This is because they don't have many cones that are sensitive to the red/orange wavelengths, so the yellow portion of the orange dye gets through, but nothing else.

They are very sensitive to blue/violet wavelengths (so your blue jeans stick out to them). They also do not have a  UV filter like our eyes, so they can see things that we can't even really explain or visualize.

Bottom line natural fibers (no UV reflection) in the brown, tan, red, orange, and green range are hard for deer to see from the background in any detail...so where those, and don't move.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: Iowabowhunter on December 02, 2015, 05:36:00 PM
I just wear ASAT all the time. Works the best in any situation. If you pair that with their 3D leafy suit    :bigsmyl:   almost invisible!
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: ti-guy on December 02, 2015, 06:22:00 PM
:campfire:
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: ChuckC on December 02, 2015, 06:23:00 PM
Thanks TJ,  try moving those around, stick that orange thing up top in place of the digital camo piece.  Up in the "treestand" area where thigs like that disappear.
ChuckC
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: LC on December 02, 2015, 08:10:00 PM
Man I don't know, use to think the same. But took my neighbors daughter out gun hunting this year. First time in years I've been out in gun season but it taught me one thing, or reminded me of one thing actually. Deer can not see plain blaze orange at ALL! We had tons of deer walk by in bow range with required blaze orange all over us! Go figure?
I've said this before on here. I raise and use white homers for a dove release business. Sometimes especially with young birds I have some land in trees by my loft. I could make a ton of money from folks betting them money they couldn't pick out a totally snow white bird sitting in a tree around my loft! Summer or winter.  Movement is the key!
I've actually done this with experienced bow hunters. Told them I have a white dove out sitting in a tree within 30 yard circumference of where they are sitting. Give them five minutes to find said one white dove. They usually eventually find it  in less than five minutes. Then I tell them there are five more in the same tree! This is usually in spring to summer months when I'm training young birds and the dominant color is green. I get a huge kick out of it! They usually will never see the first white dove  TILL IT MOVES! Keep in mind these are folks that are told to LOOK for a WHITE dove! lol Camo is way overrated.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: njloco on December 02, 2015, 08:33:00 PM
I'm with Iowabowhunter, I had a coyote less than 3 feet from me and he never saw me oh, I was sitting on a tree legged stool on the ground in ASAT 3D leafy !
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: beaunaro on December 02, 2015, 08:49:00 PM
If we only knew what deer really see.

Most camo is sold because it looks good to US.

That being said, I always read that deer see blaze orange as grey.

And I am no different than a lot of us in that I "fall"for the latest pattern...or used to.

My favs now are ASAT and Predator.

We could probably just wear the old fashioned plaid if we didn't move.

Fred Bear did.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: Ryan Sanpei on December 02, 2015, 08:58:00 PM
TJ,

Here are a few backgrounds at varying distances.

(http://i.imgur.com/WjfSb5r.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/ZeaMZCw.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/AJq1fyP.jpg)
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: Lethalflight57 on December 02, 2015, 09:47:00 PM
Just like with bows, arrow shaft materials and broadheads.  We all have our favorites. I find that ASAT, followed closely by Predator grey or brown are extremely effective for me in all hunting environments.  Animals seem to look thru me even at close distances whether hunting on or off the ground.  These patterns looks horrible when I look down at myself when wearing such "open" patterns with a lighter color as the background, or with a lighter color liberally prevalent within the pattern.  However, such patterns have been extremely helpful to me over the darker patterns I wore in years past.  Whether hunting in low light, last light, in the shadows, or mid day, I love these patterns.   I have been told by other hunters and hunting buddies how effective these patterns are in breaking up my outline and concealing me, and how they have been unable to pinpoint me on stand.  ASAT is my preferred pattern if I had to be restricted to just one pattern for all my hunting needs.  Most hunters would not consider using the  ASAT pattern because of the light color within the pattern.  ASAT is more muted in it's coloration in wool as compared to fleece, cotton, or any of the modern water/burr resistant materials (like Day One Camo's Buck Suede, Cowboy Suede, etc.).
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: stickandstring on December 03, 2015, 06:16:00 AM
Apart from Turkey, I don't think it matters what camo you use. Movement, is what gives us away.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: Bowwild on December 03, 2015, 09:04:00 AM
I'm a fan of Sitka gear, forest. I really like the new stuff but too expensive (and not necessary) to replace. This gear lasts, like new, for years.

I also like KUIU.

I agree with the idea that blending with he sky through the trees for us tree stand guys is important and a different perspective than seen on shopping pages or clothes racks.

Notice not even the face or the interior (white) of the pack are a problem with light sky in the background.

 (http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae50/bowwild/Bowhunting/WatchingCedarFence.jpg) (http://s956.photobucket.com/user/bowwild/media/Bowhunting/WatchingCedarFence.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: KentuckyTJ on December 03, 2015, 10:15:00 AM
Added the ASAT camo to the test pic.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: Nantahala Nut on December 03, 2015, 10:39:00 AM
I'm starting to lean towards gray wool. Gray seems to be a very prevalent color in the woods. I like to make gear during the off season so I have project already.  I am going to make a gray wool pullover and sew some brown and rust colored "leaves" to it and give it a run next season. OD wool (army issue variety) really looks like the moss on a tree I have noticed.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: KentuckyTJ on December 03, 2015, 10:55:00 AM
Agreed NN, the texture from the wool really gives another dimension of consealment.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: Stumpkiller on December 03, 2015, 12:37:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Nantahala Nut:
I'm starting to lean towards gray wool. Gray seems to be a very prevalent color in the woods.  
You might like the Asbell Shadow Plaid wool pullover.

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/HPIM1933.jpg)

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/HPIM1931.jpg)

Cozy, too.
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: Warden609 on December 03, 2015, 07:46:00 PM
Good stuff TJ!!
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: fujimo on December 03, 2015, 08:12:00 PM
ASAT leafy suit- as good as any ghillie suit for deer- but lighter,easier  and more snag free.
have used mine in our coastal rain forest, grass lands of alberta and in africa- awesome results all around. had a duiker at 3 yards from me in africa- kudu at 9 yards- all on the ground- ( not in blinds    :D  )
deer here all at close quarters-
by the way- what colour are deer and rabbits and grouse - not too many green oak leaf patterns in their coats , or 'pixellated' patterns - and they can be darn near invisible until they move!!
most camo's are designed to fool the purchaser- and not the quarry!   :)  

by the way- the Zebra strips are camouflage- just not for what we think- the pattern disrupts the image in the compound eye- ie: the tsetse fly- thus fooling the zebras biggest enemy- so  not really protection from predators.
i can give the full version if anybody is interested!
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: KentuckyTJ on December 03, 2015, 08:40:00 PM
I took this tonight. I have a stand with all these small yellow leaves behind me. My mossy oak leafy suit disappears in front of them.

(http://i65.tinypic.com/kdv121.jpg)
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: joe skipp on December 03, 2015, 08:49:00 PM
Many years ago I wrote an article on matching your camouflage to the terrain your hunting. Since I bowhunt from the ground I did quite a bit of experimenting over the years. For me, I settled on ASAT, ASAT/Sticks 'N Limbs and Desert Camo.

Using natural blinds it's key to "brush up" in front and behind you. As long as you break up your outline and use quiet clothing to cover your movement, you'll be ok. A few pics...

Wyoming Elk hunting...

 (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a281/sf1oak/scan0001-3.jpg) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/sf1oak/media/scan0001-3.jpg.html)

Whitetails....

 (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a281/sf1oak/PB290008.jpg) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/sf1oak/media/PB290008.jpg.html)

 (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a281/sf1oak/044_zps271dc48c.jpg) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/sf1oak/media/044_zps271dc48c.jpg.html)

 (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a281/sf1oak/P1260035.jpg) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/sf1oak/media/P1260035.jpg.html)


 (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a281/sf1oak/P3080008_zpsgbxuaduj.jpg) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/sf1oak/media/P3080008_zpsgbxuaduj.jpg.html)


ASAT in the Maine woods...


 (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a281/sf1oak/scan0001-6.jpg) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/sf1oak/media/scan0001-6.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Camo Question???
Post by: KentuckyTJ on December 03, 2015, 09:42:00 PM
Voice of experience is something to listen to. Thanks Joe.