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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: nashoba on November 18, 2015, 01:14:00 PM
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Now that another bow season is behind us I was wondering what were the thoughts of other New Yorkers on the management policies of our state. I'm also interested in knowing if you think the numbers have remained steady or are they on the decline. Here in region 8 I was talking to a local DEC official last year and asked him why I'm not seeing the deer numbers that I used to see around town or on my hunting property he told me the numbers were way off and that they were trying to bring them way down. It almost seems like the state has waged an all out war on does and is now managing for bucks only this is evident from their doe only policy for the first two weeks of the season. I don't have a problem taking a doe when there is a surplus but I cant justify shooting one when I can hunt for a week straight with out seeing one and this is on property that I used to count 30 -40 different does on any given day.
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Region 7- I haven't seen a deer in 9 days and I hunt on private property. The DEC gives out to many nuisance permits to farmers and land owners in my opinion.
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My immediate area appears to be slightly less than what we've known in the past. But the large herds that so many folks miss, while admittedly very rewarding to hunt, were probably too high of a deer capacity for most properties.
I remember hunting with my father when I was too young to participate, deer were everywhere, 100s in some fields. This is only good for hunters, not deer or non hunting landowners.
To me it appears to be a nationwide trend. Too many deer for too long had adverse impact on a lot of ecosystems. Just look at all of the animal and bird species we are seeing in NY as new. Fisher cats, Sandhill cranes, moose, bobcats where once they were rare. I think its because of more vegetation and brush due to fewer deer. And Lyme disease, probably in part due to too many deer. I don't remember seeing ticks as kid, anywhere in NY.
I live to deer hunt and while I enjoy seeing high numbers, I don't think its healthy for the overall environment. This has been the goal of many game management agencies for the last two or three decades. While I wouldn't want to see fewer deer, Im happy with what I see now as long as what we have now can be maintained.
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I recently posted that some Watershed Proerties here in the southern zone seem to be off this season as well. We would normally see 3-4 deer a morning. I've only seen 1 deer on stand so far all season. I know this land gets hammered but it has never been this bad. I've actually seen more coyotes then deer.
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For me in western NY the last 3 years in a row have been tough, this year was better than 2013/2014 but still low. I went 14 hunts in a row without seeing a deer from a stand/ hunting spot then I started to see them and really only at one location and that was state land. Here in region 9 there is plenty of food for them. I agree the nuisance permits has put the whammy on the deer. My buddy hunts almost every day and went from seeing 90-100 deer a year to 40 in one year when the local dairy farmer killed 35 nuisance does.
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I think numbers change from area to area with some areas having high numbers but not huntable land and huntable land with lower numbers.
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This year I've seen more deer, more bucks, and older bucks than ever before. It's been getting better it seems for a few years. That's in 4S Greene county. Doe permits are very hard to get. I'm up to 3 or 4 preference points now on DMPs from trying for a tag there (not that it matters for bow season but just as an indicator of DECs desired doe take).
This is my experience from one small piece of private land, in a very wooded, and largely unharmed block.
Cheers!
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This has been the slowest year I remember. 17 hunts, saw deer 6 of them. Less deer around my home as well, where hunting is not allowed. Not sure why. Sure there are nuisance permits, and in 8N they hand out doe permits like candy, but I believe it is more than that. The landscape has not changed, the food sources appear to be the same. Perhaps it was last years long winter, but something is different.
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After going to the town clerk today and buying 2 more dmp permits I now have a total of 6 dmps 4 for 8h that I will not fill and 2 for 8n. If given the opportunity I will take a doe in 8n which has thousands of acres of state land and a lot of agriculture.
I feel that if I don't use the 8h tags then I can help in my small way to help get the herd back to a reasonable numbers that we had just a couple of years ago. My neighbor and his group of guys are all big gun hunters and they are doing the same thing with their dmps.
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Brian what area of 8n are you hunting? I was going to try my luck around Hemlock lake , I was going to boat over and hunt the western side hill.
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I have seen a fair number of deer even on properties I have never seen them before. I have only been hunting NY for 6 or 7 years but I wouldn't know if this year is better or worse than any other year.
I've spent most of the season trying to get away from other hunters, pretty soon I think I will have it narrowed down. Experience has told me where I hunt, avoid other people and see deer.
I have actually been getting more deer on trail cameras than previous years.
Although I disagree with NY's management practices, especially the doe only season for 2 weeks, I have not noticed any difference in numbers in my short time hunting here.
I should add, except for certain areas, I feel like the population was always low. I know I could drive an hour in most directions from my house and be into better deer numbers, and on occasion I do. Usually those trips account for most of my deer sightings.
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In the lower portion of the southern Zone around area 3P it has been slow for the past two seasons for me. In 3M it was not terrible this year but I'd say for sure the overall numbers are lower. The state seems to be managing it that way.
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WMU 7P - seeing a LOT of doe and antlerless but few antlered deer (two since mid Oct - a four & a six point). That includes deer seen from the car in the AM & PM.
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Most years I can count on one hand how many days I get skunked. This year I can almost count on one hand how many days I saw deer. My cameras are also showing less deer. I hunt both private land and public and pressure this year has been higher than in the past. My friends also tell me they're discouraged at the few sightings they've had.
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I had a lot more action early on in the Catskill region than I did in Nov in Westchester Co. I've heard other hunters say they've noticed low numbers the last few years, now I'm starting to notice it.
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I hunt Long island and we have a lot of deer down here but this year I am not seeing as many as I usually do. I think with the amazing acorn crop this year they just aren't moving as much.
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I agree Mint.
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I hunt northern upstate & the numbers are down for sure. We have had a couple of really bad winters & that has hurt. Where I hunt in the southern zone the deer numbers have been down for several years. Izzy is right.... Better for the herd but not for hunters. The insurance companies drive the management of the deer as much as biology.
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*Hard winter
*Crossbows
*Rifles
*Doe Permits Everywhere
*DEC catering to Farmers/Ins. Companies
*Syracuse, Ithaca and Fayetteville complain too many deer-however no access for hunters-DUH!!
*Nuisance permits
= Low Deer numbers in Huntable Areas
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AMEN
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Not seeing deer is not an accurate way of judging the size or health of the herd IMHO. I hunted most of October and all of November archery season here in the southern zone (4F) and saw the fewest deer I've seen in years. Last year was spectacular with a heavy acorn crop which drew deer like a magnet. In September this year they were all over the place, deer in every field as I drove home from work each day, and more than ever.
Then came October, the warmest on record I am told and they just disappeared! Remember, 50 degrees to a deer with a winter coat is way too warm, not to mention 65 or 70!. There were no rubs, no scrapes opening, none of the usual stuff in the usual places. Then came last Sunday (I think it was the 15th). The temperature was down below 30 and it was frosty! Suddenly, scrapes and chasing. Then it warmed up again and the rest of the week was a bust.
I think that nobody, including the DEC, has a way to know what we have out there. There are so many factors influencing the herd in any given year. Food sources change, the encroachment of people, and this year, the weather. There was so little shooting yesterday morning on the gun season opener that it was strange, but I don't think that reflects the numbers of deer but rather the numbers and efforts of hunters. One of my neighbors came by and showed me a truly marvelous buck he took with his rifle. He works hard at it.
Just as an aside, I do think that we have to continue to protect the early archery seasons from muzzleloaders and crossbows, on principle. That seems to be a plan the DEC has for the future. They don't think the bowhunters do a good enough job on the doe population, if that tells you anything about numbers of deer.
So... maybe this belongs in the "politics" forum?
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All this talk of the deer herd has been stewing since the 60's. Take the north country, a deer needs food water and shelter, lot's of shelter, plenty of water but over mature forest provide little food. Many doe permits in the late 60's, now very few deer. In the South, loss of habitat, doe permits [way to many] and greedy hunters [illegal activity] equals few deer. Areas that have limited access or no hunting at all have deer and there are many areas that fit that mode. It all boils down to miss management of the deer herd for decades by the DEC. We can complain, protest, and whine all day long .......it's not about to change. :readit:
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Susan I agree with most of what you said. I am basing my opinion not just on lack of deer sightings while actually hunting but on other factors as well . My parents who are retired live adjacent to the property that I hunt so they are able to give me a pretty much up to date report starting in September and they aren't seeing anything at all . The other thing is starting 5-7 years ago the number of deer car accidents dropped off to zero around there and this is in a area that deer were getting hit almost daily. So even if the temps are high deer are still going to move at night which would make them vulnerable to being hit. Like I said in my earlier post the head biologist in region 8 told me there goal was to nock the numbers way down. As far as time and effort go I've been somewhat fortunate to be able to hunt every day as I am recovering from back surgery so based on season long observation I can say there are very few deer left in the area.
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First, it's not possible to talk about the "New York deer herd" because there are so many regions in NY and so many different states of succession in each region.
Where I hunt in Region 8, I can say there is a major problem with too many deer. I hunted in 8N (both on the eastern edge and western edge), 8H, and 8R.
I was concerned that the winter we had would have decreased the herd. Snows 40 inches deep stayed on the ground without melting for well over two months with temperatures lower than I ever recall in this area (lived here since 1962). And yet, I saw too many deer for the habitat available. I saw crop damage due to deer being worse than I remember.
I never saw a big buck. I saw a couple normal 6 points, and too many crotch horns and spikes. Also, as in 2014, I saw more yearlings than I could imagine.
And, driving our roads brings me to the same conclusion. Twice I've come to a complete stop on major highways to allow big bucks to cross. And, from the early summer on, I've had way too many deer on the road side on my evening drives.
I'm not a wildlife biologist. But, from my view, I seem to think there are too many deer for the areas I have been.
So, with the DEC trying to reduce the herd in most of the areas I hunt, I can say they are probably correct in their analysis that this is required.
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I agreed with Ron. I have ben hunting for years and the number of deer are way down. This year 22 times and 9 deer. Last Tuesday 6 point at 13 yards that spook at the last second. I hunt both state land and private land. The places I hunt produce bucks for me for years. Driving to my hunting area I would see deer all the time. Now very few. If young hunters DON`T se deer they loose interest. I never see hunters in the woods anymore. My local firehouse had breakfast for hunters for years no more no hunters. I do miss the old days and traditions.