Hi all, I was recently told that keeping a strap on bowquiver on the bow may potentially break the bow. Maybe it tends to mess with the limbs because it is usually straped on fadeout area? I have no idea.
I have a bow quiver strapped onto my longbow and it seems fine but I haven't used it long enough to tell. Is it true that strap on quivers could potentially break your bow if you keep them on all the time when you shoot your bow?
Thanks I'm actually in the market for a new quiver and going back and forth between another bow quiver and a side quiver.
I have honestly never heard that. If its on the fades and doesnt move I dont see how it could break the bow. But I could see it maybe if possible break it if its on the working part of the limbs. Hopefully someone else with more knowledge on this will chime in.
Who told you that?
Tracy
QuoteOriginally posted by K.S.TRAPPER:
Who told you that?
Tracy
I don't know what that's so funny. :biglaugh:
But I'm laughing pretty hard.
That is a bogus statement...
I would be very careful what else your source shares with you about archery in general, and take it with 2 grains of salt...... that is ridiculous...
:biglaugh: :jumper: :laughing:
I see. that's good to know. then bow quiver it is!!!
I'll change the subject title so as not to mislead others :)
QuoteOriginally posted by K.S.TRAPPER:
Who told you that?
Tracy
Some guy over another forum, where someone's custom bow blew up and claimed it *could be* the bow quiver. I dont want to take any chances with my bows which is why i was asking.
I'm throwing in because I personally have seen discoloration under the glass of two bows I made years ago.Breaking the bow may be to harsh a word. And yes they were at the fadeout area. The quivers were Selway rubber slide on types. The quivers were left on for a long time. It is understandable how longtime compression on a bow limb could cause permanent damage to the materials. Especially when heat is a factor in limb integrity. These bows we shoot are only fiberglass and wood. I've been making bows for twenty five years and know the fragility of these limbs. I do not believe the strap on types would cause as much
pressure as the rubber slide on's............Ray
So now I can blame my side quiver for my bad hip and knees.
QuoteOriginally posted by RaybowTx:
I'm throwing in because I personally have seen discoloration under the glass of two bows I made years ago.Breaking the bow may be to harsh a word. And yes they were at the fadeout area. The quivers were Selway rubber slide on types. The quivers were left on for a long time. It is understandable how longtime compression on a bow limb could cause permanent damage to the materials. Especially when heat is a factor in limb integrity. These bows we shoot are only fiberglass and wood. I've been making bows for twenty five years and know the fragility of these limbs. I do not believe the strap on types would cause as much
pressure as the rubber slide on's............Ray
Yep. Nor a fan of the Selway type quiver because of the rubber attachments. It can change the way your limbs flex. If I were to go back to a bow quiver on a longbow, it would be a Great Northern strap on.
We make a strap on quiver as well. But I can guarantee you that any one of our quivers no matter how long left on the bow, will not cause a limb to break. Buy and shoot with confidence no matter which quiver you decide to purchase.
Dont get me wrong. Im talking about pressures the quiver puts on the limbs when left on for YEARS. I have a few of those qivers and I still use and like them. My daughter has one on her bow now. So I guess I should have just stated one sentence. "Don't tie, strap or clamp anything to your bow for long periods of time.".............Ray
I used a back quiver and now I have back problems. That may be related also.
Okay, I guess I'll take exception to those who say strap-on quivers won't damage a bow or that they have to be left on for years to do damage.
When I first got my Kanati, I used a bow quiver with the rubber straps that lock over a small peg to tighten. I had it on for ONE season. When I took it off, I noticed a white area where the straps had been on both top and bottom limbs. It looked like this on both limbs:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/30coupe/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%204_zpsvxnmu3c3.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/30coupe/media/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%204_zpsvxnmu3c3.jpg.html)
I was afraid I had ruined my bow. I checked with Jason, but he thought it was probably cosmetic. Nonetheless, I stopped using that quiver and used either a back quiver or a four arrow EFA quiver with a totem and the original velcro fasteners. The EFA doesn't get tight enough to put pressure on the limb and the totem makes it unnecessary to over tighten the straps.
I shot the bow for another seven years, occasionally using the EFA but mostly carrying a bare bow and back quiver. This summer I thought the white area on the top limb was a bit more noticeable, but since I hadn't shot the bow for months due to an elbow injury, I thought it was just my imagination. Unfortunately, it wasn't.
I was lucky in that I wasn't shooting the bow when this happened. I was pulling arrows, and it was hanging across the back of my Ranger...no quiver just the bow, even weight on each limb...just like a bow rack. I went into the house and answered nature's call. When I returned and picked up my bow, I saw this.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/30coupe/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%203_zpslc21mcfx.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/30coupe/media/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%203_zpslc21mcfx.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/30coupe/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%202_zpsbmybrflt.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/30coupe/media/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%202_zpsbmybrflt.jpg.html)
Let me tell you, I wanted to throw up! Did the bow quiver cause the damage? I'll let you be the judge, but before the bow let go, the upper limb had looked identical to the picture of the bottom limb for years. I just know I don't use that type of bow quiver anymore. I use either the EFA or a Big Jim's quiver. Neither of these has to be very tight to work.
Did I over tighten the first strap-on quiver? Probably, since it wouldn't stay put very well otherwise. So, I don't think you can condemn all bow quivers, even the type I had, but I do think you need to use them with great care and NEVER over tighten one...even for a little while.
To be extreme, I suppose that you could make a case for back quivers causing back pain, or pocket quivers users requiring hip replacements. In all honesty I have heard of a very limited number of people who supposedly had some discoloration at the fadeout. When I spoke with several suppliers of the rubber that we use, I was told that there was no possibility of a chemical problem, but that there could be the possibility of carbon black rubbing off onto the bow. We immediately went to a more expensive rubber that was guaranteed not to rub off. I personally keep quivers on 3-5 bows and have never had any problem with any kind of discoloration or breakage. I even experimented with putting the quiver two inches out from the fadeout with no negative results. Of course the quiver was one of ours (EFA) and was not as heavy as most.
I don't usually use a bow quiver but when I do I use an EFA...
Hunt hard my friend
(http://www.jewishjournal.com/images/made/e52c9891b2873d62/dos-equis-guy_300_232_c1.JPG)
I certainly do not want to incite any negativity here. I believe if sitting around a campfire and discussing all things trad-bowhunting this might be worthy of passing along.
I used a bow quiver on one of my takedowns. I left it on my bow for a few days while shooting to tune with the quiver attached. When I removed the quiver I saw this.
top limb belly
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/DSC_0450.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Equismith/media/DSC_0450.jpg.html)
bottom limb belly
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/DSC_0451.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/Equismith/media/DSC_0451.jpg.html)
I attribute this to how stiff the strap was and the lack of enough adjustment holes (it has two and it was adjusted to the maximum length), unlike on the Great Northern whose straps have numerous holes for differing limb widths and thicknesses, and unlike Velcro adjustment straps.
The bow is a Lost Creek takedown with what I would say are normal width/thickness limbs. Chad builds a fantastic bow and the finish is durable, but was no match for the mounting rods of this quiver and strap combo.
I'm not throwing bricks, just passing along an observation. Pressure at the strap location can be very intense, based on design.
If you use a bow quiver, a test fit might be best, if possible, before buying. I like the quiver that caused these indentations on the bow limbs, but use it on smaller limbed bows now. It is a fine quiver. It's just not made for all bows with the strap system used.
The problem is speaking in absolutes. It is generally not a good idea. Obviously, saying the quiver can never be an issue is incorrect. To say, "it's rare." Is more correct. I look at the pics of the Kanati and wonder if it could have been multifactoral. Was there an issue with the finish on that particular bow? Did moisture collect under the straps and cause the problem? Who knows. Bottom line is, it appears the quiver played a part here.
Been a great northern strap on quiver on every bow I own for over 20 years. These quivers are on each bow all year long (basically each bow has a gn quiver put on the day it arrives and quiver only comes off for travel to out of state hunts). Never had or ever expect a problem.
The 3-4 bows I have had to fail over the last 20 years or so, have all broke at the fade-outs; the same area where many strap-on quivers attach. On 2 of the bows, I never used a bow quiver. Although just my opinion, I would think the pressure a strap-on quiver exerts on a bow would not be great enough to cause failure. On the other had, if the area under the straps retained moisture for prolonged periods, I could see it possibly effecting the bow's structural strength. I still use a strap-on quiver, but do occasionaly take it off to clean my bow.
QuoteOriginally posted by TaterHill Archer:
The problem is speaking in absolutes. It is generally not a good idea. Obviously, saying the quiver can never be an issue is incorrect. To say, "it's rare." Is more correct. I look at the pics of the Kanati and wonder if it could have been multifactoral. Was there an issue with the finish on that particular bow? Did moisture collect under the straps and cause the problem? Who knows. Bottom line is, it appears the quiver played a part here.
No moisture. I can't speak for the bow's finish, but I have had no other issues with the finish. The rods on the quiver appear to be covered in a coating of plastic, but they have minimal cushioning effect, if any.
Bows look goofy with quivers on them any way. That's a good reason to not have one. :campfire: OK just kidding . It might be the amount of light that the bow gets on the two parts that weaken that spot . light will affect those materials over time . One part might get stiffer or weaker. Just thinking.
There are several very reputable bowyers that will caution about getting quivers, especially the slide on type, out on the working portion of the limbs.,. that should be common sense, but might bear repeating for those new to trad.
QuoteOriginally posted by 30coupe:
Okay, I guess I'll take exception to those who say strap-on quivers won't damage a bow or that they have to be left on for years to do damage.
When I first got my Kanati, I used a bow quiver with the rubber straps that lock over a small peg to tighten. I had it on for ONE season. When I took it off, I noticed a white area where the straps had been on both top and bottom limbs. It looked like this on both limbs:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/30coupe/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%204_zpsvxnmu3c3.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/30coupe/media/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%204_zpsvxnmu3c3.jpg.html)
7 years later.....
When I returned and picked up my bow, I saw this.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/30coupe/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%203_zpslc21mcfx.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/30coupe/media/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%203_zpslc21mcfx.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/30coupe/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%202_zpsbmybrflt.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/30coupe/media/Kanati%20Longbow/Broken%20bow%202_zpsbmybrflt.jpg.html)
Did the bow quiver cause the damage? I'll let you be the judge.......
Hey Russ.... in can flat out guarantee that quiver had nothing to do with the bow failure. I can tell you EXACTLY why it let go in that exact spot though, because the tip of the fades is where 90 percent of long bow limb failures occur, and a lot of recurves do too.
I've had the same strap on Sellway quiver on my long bow with the rubber over the peg for 5 years straight. i never take it off and rarely take the string off for that matter.... i couldn't even guess how may arrows have been through this rig. Maybe 100,000. This is my go to bow.
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/3D%20pics/WTB%20rendezvous%202015/2015%20Washington%20archery%20shoot%20029.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/3D%20pics/WTB%20rendezvous%202015/2015%20Washington%20archery%20shoot%20029.jpg.html)
QuoteOriginally posted by Stixbowdrew:
We make a strap on quiver as well. But I can guarantee you that any one of our quivers no matter how long left on the bow, will not cause a limb to break. Buy and shoot with confidence no matter which quiver you decide to purchase.
I didn't realize you were a sponsor here Andrew. Welcome aboard. :thumbsup: ... You guys make great quivers. Are you still building them with the rubber strap? i like my Selway strap on a lot.
Interesting thread... I have read on one bow builders website that he will void the warranty if a quiver was use on the limbs.
I keep one on my go-to longbow, I like the added weight. :archer:
QuoteOriginally posted by Kirkll:
Hey Russ.... in can flat out guarantee that quiver had nothing to do with the bow failure. I can tell you EXACTLY why it let go in that exact spot though, because the tip of the fades is where 90 percent of long bow limb failures occur, and a lot of recurves do too.
I've had the same strap on Sellway quiver on my long bow with the rubber over the peg for 5 years straight. i never take it off and rarely take the string off for that matter.... i couldn't even guess how may arrows have been through this rig. Maybe 100,000. This is my go to bow.
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/3D%20pics/WTB%20rendezvous%202015/2015%20Washington%20archery%20shoot%20029.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/3D%20pics/WTB%20rendezvous%202015/2015%20Washington%20archery%20shoot%20029.jpg.html)
Kirk,
I understand that the fades are a weak area on all one piece bows, which also happens to be where 99 percent of bow quivers are attached. Mine was not a Selway. It was a Thunderhorn Boa. I wasn't intending to offend any particular brand by naming the quiver, but I have to say it was not a Selway. The attachment system is similar, but not identical.
I suppose it could be coincidence that the light areas showed up only after I had used the quiver, but I'm not going to use that attachment system again just to be on the safe side.
Those bows are failing there due to design or weak glue ups as that is where MOST of the stress is located in longbows and recurves. It has nothing to do with the bow quivers... I have used GN strap ons for 20 years and never had any issues.....no issues with fiberglass with wear spots or anything else. I also dont strap mine down as tightly as it looks like some of you...but with the rubber straps just SNUGGED on the limbs I have also never had one come loose or make noise.
Purely coincidence in my opinion.
Quiver inserts and no worries.
Ha I didn't really expect a discussion like this but it's definitely become interesting.
I strap my quiver an inch or so before the fadeouts just to be safe so the pressure is virtually on the riser section. I'm very cautious of bow failures so I almost never buy 2nd hand.. now after reading this thread I'm starting to think maybe a totem is a good idea.
I do have to clarify that my efa strap on quiver, which is awesome btw, never has broken my bows :) . In fact the straps don't require a whole lot of pressure to stay on the sloped section of my riser. But a totem is always a good idea.
JMTC .......... I have never liked strap-on quivers simply because I don't like attaching them to my limbs (no other particular reason)But, do like the quick disconnect types like the GN, or ones that attach the risers.
As a side, I wonder how long the old Bear snap-on quivers (with the spring arms) were manufactured before they were discontinued, and why they WERE discontinued? :dunno:
QuoteOriginally posted by Brock:
Those bows are failing there due to design or weak glue ups as that is where MOST of the stress is located in longbows and recurves. It has nothing to do with the bow quivers... I have used GN strap ons for 20 years and never had any issues.....no issues with fiberglass with wear spots or anything else. I also dont strap mine down as tightly as it looks like some of you...but with the rubber straps just SNUGGED on the limbs I have also never had one come loose or make noise.
Purely coincidence in my opinion.
+2
A bow quiver should not be placed in the working part of the limbs.
By working part i am referring to the fade out area .That is the area where the riser and limb laminations are mated or joined together . More of a problem on one piece bows than three piece bows however I would not strap a quiver on the wedge fadeouts of three piece limbs.
A good bowyer spends a lot of effort thinning the fade outs for a reason that is to eliminate a hinge area which causes stress .Straping a quiver on these areas might ,could,would cause unnecessary stress . :)
Just my thoughts formulated from experience building bows. :) :)
In several conversations with chemist who work with rubber, I was told that there was no possibility of a chemical reaction between the rubber straps and the limbs. The only other possibility that I can imagine (other then placing the quiver out onto the working area of the limb)is that there may be moisture trapped under the strap from hunting in wet weather. Personally, I don't hunt in wet weather (wimp) but if I did I would take the quiver off and dry both of them off before replacing.
You can't blame bowyers for placing restrictions on what is allowed for their guarantee to be in effect. Heaven only knows what stories some of them must hear. I once sold a bow that I was shooting to someone who just had to have it. A month later he brought it back for a refund. The bowstring had cut 6" down from the tip through the laminates of fiberglass and wood. When I said "it looks like you had a dry fire." he swore that it happened at full draw. At full draw the string is not even trying to go in that direction.
I have a homemade strap-on system for a one piece quiver, and it only comes off the bow once or twice a year for a cleaning. Been using it like this for many years, and no problems.