Getting ready to assemble some new carbons and would like to use brass insert adapters to glue directly onto my Magnus classics( glue on version). I'm kind of a numbers nut and have been running countless variations on 3 rivers dynamic spine calculator. My worry is if I don't have my tune just right and I epoxy in the brass I'll b up #!&$ creek without a paddle, as it were. Does cool flex work well enough to fine tune my shaft length, for both insert and point? Thanks
I don't know about the point. Big Jim sells a hot melt that will work for both. It's about all I use.
I have regular hot melt, I guess I'm just concerned about over heating my new shafts with it. Anyone using 2 post epoxy in inserts and hot melt on points? I guess worst case I could trim off the nock end?
I like the blue low temp hot melt with anything directly going to carbon.
Have had no problems with the Cool Flex.
Terry
You should be fine using your regular hot melt to tune as long as it is not real cold and the glue can get brittle. Remember to degrease/clean both parts to be joined, I like denatured alcohol, not isopropyl, acetone works also.
The cool flex by Ferr-l-tite is the way to go. I use it for carbon, aluminum, or woods. I like it because you don't need to heat the shaft just the tip. I heat the threads and screw it into the insert. The heat transfers to the insert enough to loosen the glue. I am one who alignes blades and fletching and it allows me to do so without the need for the rubber tings.
I have yet to have a problem with hot melt glue failing on my inserts. I like having the ability to remove the insert if necessary (to replace with a heavy brass insert if I want, or if the point adapter becomes stuck in the insert).
I have used hot melt for several years on carbons and not had a problem.
I don't epoxy inserts anymore. Use hot melt. Heat up an insert with field point attached, using pliers of course. Apply hot melt and insert into arrow. I have cold water running while I do that and immediately put tip of arrow under the water to cool the shaft. Have had no problems with this method. Easy to remove inserts if needed. Just heat a field point, screw into insert using pliers, and when the hot melt melts, pull out the insert. Done.
Either the blue, cool flex Fer-il-tite or Big Jim's hot melt glue work great for both inserts and adapter in carbon shafts. Allows for adjustment or changing of inserts without damaging the carbon shaft.
Here's another question, maybe a little of topic. What's the consensus on using steel threaded point adapters versus using the tapered brass inserts? I'm playing with the numbers to get as much FOC as possible.
I'm shooting a Bear Grizzly, 55lb @ 28", my draw length is 29. Going onto 3 rivers trad only shafts, .300 spine @ 30" BOP with either 160 gr Magnus classics with 125 gr brass insert adapter or 75gr steel adapter with 50 gr brass insert. 3 rivers spine calculator shows either combo a little weak spined, but I was thinking of building out the strike plate a touch to weaken the shaft back into tune.
I guess my concern with the steel point adapters is that it would just add another link in the system to possibly fail, but would make changing BH to field points easier.
Is my thinking here fundamentally flawed? Thanks for all the he'll everyone
Chris
I've used the steel adapters before. They work just dandy. As you said, they are also easier to swap heads around when you are tuning. My experience with spine calculators is that they often recommend a spine that is too stiff. Your mileage may vary.
Big Jim's Quik Stik made a believer out of me. You'll be lucky if any spine calculator gets you closer than "in the ballpark", although when you find you're personal formula you can plug that factor into them when you start tinkering and trying to reproduce what works with different combinations of componenets, FOC, etc. I'll take steel adapters over aluminum all day long.
Since I'm going for a high FOC arrow, I'm ok with the recommendation that the calcs show them stiff. I think I'm going to go with a test pack on the steel adapters and a dozen each, 50 and 100gr brass inserts to do my tuning. I've just never used hot glue on carbon, only on wood, want to be careful not to ruin my new shafts
have you tuned these with field points yet? just might be putting cart before the horse. I'd prefer screw in BH adapters for ease of tuning and less subjecting carbon shafts to multiple heat and reheat replacing points and broadheads. Never had an aluminum broadhead adapter fail. Only going to get so far with a calculator, it's a good starting point.
Not yet, just trying to do as much theoretical math as possible before I buy my setup. Shafts and glue on BH's are on their way but haven't ordered inserts or adapters yet. I'm definitely leaning towards the screw in adapters now.
Love the Cool Flex. I have used it on multiple carbons, different brands and inserts, same dependable results. I've also started using it on the few woods I shoot. I was at a shoot a while back (all wood arrows and bows) that just about every shooter that wasn't related to me lost at least 1 point, some multiples. My wife, son, and I never had an issue. I think it's because it stays flexible. Just make sure you prep well. I like to use a copper bore brush on the inside of the shaft, scuff the inserts with a little sandpaper, and then clean all with 91% Isopropyl alcohol. When it comes to Stu's, my experience leads me to the weak side of the recommended range. Usually I'll cut so that according to the chart I am in the bottom of the range and then start shooting. A few times it has been right on. Usually end up taking off another 1/4" or so.
Big Jim's hot melt stick. I use it in a glue gun and preheat the insert with an alcohol burner. Tried a lot of stuff once I ran out of the black Easton Quick Hit adhesive without much luck. Tried the Cool Flex and there's a big Zwickey Delta somewhere in my Block target I'm still waiting to ruin an arrow on. Big Jim's stuff has them all beat in my opinion. Plus he's a super guy to deal with.
Chris I think I understand part of your question. I use two part epoxy. When I want to remove the insert I take an old field tip, screw it half way in. Heat field tip only with propane torch until the tip and insert full free. The tip will transfer enough heat to break the epoxy loose. The shaft will not get hot enough to hurt it. The epoxy is very strong under normal temps but breaks down pretty quick with this kind of heat. I do it alot..........Ray
Chris I think I understand part of your question. I use two part epoxy. When I want to remove the insert I take an old field tip, screw it half way in. Heat field tip only with propane torch until the tip and insert full free. The tip will transfer enough heat to break the epoxy loose. The shaft will not get hot enough to hurt it. The epoxy is very strong under normal temps but breaks down pretty quick with this kind of heat. I do it alot..........Ray
Thanks for the tip. I ordered my parts from 3 rivers today, got quite the assortment of adapters and inserts to play with. Maybe a question for another thread but I'm thinking about going with some 155 grain Grizzlies instead of the Magnus classics. I keep reading all the Ashby reports and updates and the Grizzly seems to be the BH of choice for Ashby. Granted I'm probably not going to be hunting cape buffalo anytime soon, but I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy, no such thing as overkill, IMO