I was watching "Fred Bear Dangerous Game Bow Hunting" on Youtube and at the 20:50 mark he's shooting a water buffalo or something. Search for the video and look at the arrow as it flies. It looks like it has a smoke trail behind it??? What do y'all think?
I believe he was using his "pods"! The poison arrow that he was trying to push.
Yep something is sure making a smoke trail. I wonder if he was using a pod system on that hunt.
Mike
Yep, that was a pod
Fred Bear using a poison pod!!! WOW Never knew that. :eek: :eek: :eek:
Different time, different place. As I understand it, Mr. Bear was trying to make the kill quicker, more humane, even if the shot was marginal.
We look back at some of the first mechanical heads and shake our heads wondering "how in the world could they have used such a thing?".
'Course this was before tree huggers and peta, when there weren't so many people who put animals on the same level as humans, if not above. Cosmetic manufacturers, drug companies, etc. treated animals a whole lot worse.
Never used one myself, but I can remember when the "pod" was legal in MS. The delivery system may still be legal...it was the poison (anectine) that became so hard to procure...became illegal to possess it without a prescription.
Even today broadhead manufacturers are working to make their product as lethal as possible. That's all Mr. Bear was doing. Hindsight is 20/20.
I have the Fred Bear series on video, and the book (Fred Bear's Field Notes). Don't recall ever seeing one or hearing it mentioned--guess that's a good excuse to watch the videos and read the book again. They go great together--the "made for TV" videos are much better when you get "the rest of the story" from the book.
Chad
The pod was never legal in Mississippi or anywhere else for that matter. The drug that is used is regulated by the USFDA. It can only be possessed by licensed physicians or veterinarians. Anyone who was using pods or selling them was violating federal law. The question is why did the state of Mississippi turn a blind eye to this and refuse to enforce federal drug laws?
And he used a sight on his bow once, heaven forbid!!!
I'm just going on what I was told by a game warden who, coincidentally, used pods. Again, as I understand it the pod itself was never illegal, the poison was what was regulated. This site agrees with what I was told.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_7184455_poison-arrows-deer-hunting-mississippi.html
I didn't see anything one way or the other in the MS game regs. www.mdwfp.com (http://www.mdwfp.com)
This was back before people "harvested" animals like a potato or squash. We killed them. Still do. The only place I know of where an animal can be "harvested" is where they are grown inside fences. We use tractors and combines to harvest things. Never seen John Deere or Massey Ferguson offer an attachment for whitetail.
Mr. Bear wasn't from MS. I don't know if he ever even hunted in MS, much less lived here. I've seen no evidence the state of MS turned a "blind eye" to anything.
I went on a hunt at the Army Ammunition Depot in Chattanooga that was a draw hunt and strictly regulated. We were searched as we went through processing center for matches, lighters, drugs and a host of other things that weren't allowed on the area.
A guy checked a deer in with a slight wound in its flank, a subsequent search turned up some hidden pods on his person, he was from Mississippi.
All his buddies were rounded up and all had pods in their possession.
I wonder if they are still in jail, probably not as this took place in the mid 70s.
For the record, I'm talking about MS law and regulations. I have no idea what the law is in other states. Don't know of anyone who still uses the pod since the poison became illegal to possess.
If Fred did use them, he sure didn't advertise it on the videos (I have the collection). I'd really hate to believe he did though....
I think he's given credit for inventing them. Not that using poison arrows/darts is anything new, just the delivery system he developed.
LBR as I remember you are correct that it was legal to use them in Mississippi. There were several stories about them at the time in the archery magazines.
Different time, different way of thinking. 50-60 yard shots weren't uncommon or looked down upon either. Fred was looking at it for a quick Humain kill. Can't fault him for that.
Bear Archery held patents on pod delivery systems. Fred participated in several hunts in the southeast using pods. In addition, it is rumored he used them on some of his Africa hunts. I have seen photographs from one of his Africa safaris in which the pods can be clearly seen just beneath the broadheads. If memory serves me correct there is a photocopy of a letter from Fred to Glenn St. Charles in Glenn's book in which Fred is touting the benefits of using pod arrows. M. R. James also documented Fred's involvement and opinions regarding the use of pods in his book "Unforgettable Bowhunters." Do a google search, it is all there.
I've yet to see any evidence where MS violated any federal laws.
Again, as I was told (because I never used or even bought one), at one time the anectine could be purchased over the counter, as could a lot of drugs some 25+ years ago.
I remember my dad medicating, even doing minor surgery, on hogs, cows, hunting dogs, etc. for himself and for neighbors.
You could buy poison to control predators, tranquilizers to catch a skittish beagle, etc. My dad bought penicillin by the pint and syringes to inject it with at the local feed store. Wasn't considered to be a big deal at all. Nowadays you can't get a good insecticide thanks to the epa.
Don't be disappointed in Mr. Bear. At the time, the pod was looked at under a different light than it is now.
there isn't a person in the history of this world that hasn't made a mistake in their life...if there is I would like to meet him/her....Fred BEAR was an ambassador for the sport of archery and he has made it a great sport for us today....
I wish someone would invent a time-machine so we could send someone back to straighten out these early, misguided pioneers of our sport. What were these guys thinking back then????
On another thought, I wonder if some of the things we do today will be thought of as unethical in the future? Such as: hunting from trees or blinds, hunting during rut, over food plots, using trail cameras, gps, etc.
I didn't mean for this post to become a discussion about what is ethical in one man's eyes or another, but I will say do you think Native Americans would have thought about poison on an arrow being ethical? Heck no. Also, they wouldn't still be shooting traditional if they were here! Ha. Of course, they were hunting to survive. We can just close this thread if it needs to be.
if a pod membrane can open in flight that could be a hazard for the people that would handle the carcass or the arrow. Anectine is used as an anesthesia, it is only deadly a large doses and even then it takes a little time to work. I remember discussions way back and some thought that nicotine would be better. Pure nicotine can kill anything that it touches or anyone that touches an arrow that has it sprayed on even after it dries. We are lucky that it never got popular or legal to use it in that way. To me, an arrow that is spreading a plume of poison in flight is terrifying.
QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
if a pod membrane can open in flight that could be a hazard for the people that would handle the carcass or the arrow. Anectine is used as an anesthesia, it is only deadly a large doses and even then it takes a little time to work. I remember discussions way back and some thought that nicotine would be better. Pure nicotine can kill anything that it touches or anyone that touches an arrow that has it sprayed on even after it dries. We are lucky that it never got popular or legal to use it in that way. To me, an arrow that is spreading a plume of poison in flight is terrifying.
Fred Bear did a lot of great things for bowhunting, but his promotion of 'the pod' was not one of them.
I am not passing judgement, he was an experimenter, but I cannot help to wonder how much discussion and testing went on before he tried it on a hunt.
I will have to watch the video. Stop putting modern morals on someone of a different era. Public disembowelings were an event in a different time. The spectacular fights of the colosseum. different times looked at life and our relationship with it differently. Fred Bear was a pioneer. He was looking for something new on the horizon to market to make archery more successful and widespread. He lived in a different time.
x2
Lots of states do things "against" federal law. Just look at all of the illegal alien "friendly" cities. Look at pot in Colorado and ( ? ) Washington is it ?
The drug is a prescription drug by federal law. Mississippi may have looked the other way, but it is still a prescription drug. That has always been in effect for that drug.
It is just people, trying to make things easier, as always.
ChuckC
There was an article I read not to long ago on Bob Lee and he talked about a Hunt with Fred Bear, Glean St. Charles and himself down in MS to try out the POD. He was against the use of it an spoke about it in the article.
The way I read it, Fred was wanting to try out the effectiveness of the system.
And my memory is the same as Chads, It was legal in MS and the drug could be bought at drug store over the counter.
I had a friend who used it during the time before I got interested in archery.
There was a thread on this subject in history and collecting a couple years ago. There was also a article in Traditional Bowhunter Magazine on the subject.