Hard to stay motivated to stick to traditional. I have been practicing solely with my longbow for going on 8 months and I still cannot even maintain a reasonable grouping even at 10 yds. Is this normal? Ive read books, watched videos... I am at my wits end. I shoot at a plain ol target I put about a half dollar sized spot on. Is there better ways to practice. Any recommendations.
I have been at about the same amount of time. here is what helped me.
1.first I shot a ton of arrows.
2.then I got used to the weight of the bow and tuned my arrows
3.the more I shot the more I developed my own anchor and method
4.from then until now I have worked on form and release.
5. you have to want it more than anything. that means shooting every chance you get...
this is what has worked for me.
Find a MENTOR. There must be someone near you that could assist.
You can't imagine how much that helps.
make sure your arrows are tuned to your bow.Spine ect. That caused me lots of heart ache in the beginning.Read every thing you can in the form section.
Are you shooting instinctive or gap?
You need to attend a training class from a first rate instructor. Obviously, you have some severe faults, but with good instruction a lot of progress can be made reasonably quickly. Don't throw in the towel yet.
I tuned my arrows best I could and I am trying to do instinctive. I have yet to meet anyone in person that shoots traditional.
Have you asked for help on here on arrows you should be shooting, how to hold the bow, stance, etc.
Their are a lot of great guys on this site that are very willing to help.
Twin Oaks is in TN! There has got to be plenty of trad shooters there too! You just have to get out to shoots and such and find them.
Good Luck!
Bisch
Are there no Tennessee archers on this site?
I have read and watched just about everything you can and try to apply it all.
One would think so Bisch, but they must not be in the same circles I visit. I just need to take the time to get down there I suppose. No joke, I have yet to meet another trad shooter in person yet...
All good advice above. I would suggest self video if you have the means. It amazes me what I can spot as far as flaws in my form by reviewing a video. You can also share it with Arne, Dave and others on the shooting forum.
Best of luck and hang in there. It is worth the time and effort when it finally starts to click!
Are you new to archery or new to trad?
The reason I ask is I have a friend who shoots a wheel bow. He's looking for 1 inch groups at 30 yards. I'm excited if I don't lose an arrow at 30 yards!! Different frame of reference.
I came from compound and I got good enough that I could put 3 out of 5 arrows in a playing card at 50 yds on average. I feel like I have a good base on archery, but for whatever reason I cannot get consistent with my longbow, so there must be something fundamental to trad archery that I am just not doing. I guess I will try the video thing.
I realize I will probably never reach the accuracy I had with the compound, but I think 6 inch groups at 10 yards is not expecting too much. Right now I am all over the place.
There are so many small details to get right shooting trad, that it is easy to screw up any given shot. Consistency is much more difficult to maintain with trad gear. Once you get your form down, your shooting will improve exponentially.
Like I said above, it is worth the effort. Good luck.
1. It does not looked like you are over bowed with 48#. That is GOOD!
2. Odds are you way overspined. If you are shooting woods (which is about the worst thing a non "expert" could do) you should be in the 50/55 range, aluminums about a 2016, or carbons in the .500 or 35/55 range.
3. I learned the same way long ago by reading books and videos. Trust me, that is a BAD idea. Find an old guy that understands FORM and learn from him or look on here for one of Rod Jenkin's shooting clinics. I'm still plagued by demons I reinforced in my younger days shooting thousands upon thousands of arrows wrong from reading "instinctive" shooting books. Nip that now, it will be the best money you ever spent.
I am shooting 500 carbon easton axis cut to 30". They showed on average just a tad weak bare shafting them. They should be pretty close I would think, not so bad as to give me such problems surely. But, what do I know, ha ha.
The whole Gap vs instinctive subject allways seems to be a debate issue. But this isn't about debate, it's about you.
Try shooting gap for a while. Close one eye, sight down the arrow, put the tip on the target and let er rip.
I prefer to shoot instinctive,but in the last year while working on my form issues, I sometimes shoot gap for a few days. It helps recalibrate my brain if that makes any sense at all.
Its all the same to your bow and the arrow. If your going along shooting gap and one day you open both eyes and focus on the spot instead of the arrow now your "instinctive"
One eye "gap" two eyes "instinctive"
Yeah, I actually have been trying a sort of hybrid version I guess. I shoot "instinctive" but use my peripheral to use the arrow as a reference of sorts, it seemed to help at first.
You have a pm
QuoteOriginally posted by Archer1977:
I am shooting 500 carbon easton axis cut to 30". They showed on average just a tad weak bare shafting them. They should be pretty close I would think, not so bad as to give me such problems surely. But, what do I know, ha ha.
Bare shafting is tough to do if you don't have good form. Sounds like you are in good shape with your bow and arrows. Find somebody that knows what they are doing to help you. Interpreting what the books and videos say is not easy and it's a lot better with somebody there to say, no you don't have that quite right.
Good luck.
after 9 months of shooting I don't what kind of shooter I am. I keep both eyes open but I think I use the tip of the arrow when I shoot..
Steve-O, Yeah I knew my bare shafting would not be ideal, so I shot about 10 arrows and took the average each time I made adjustments.
Ive contacted Arne Moe about the video critique, just need to do it.
Learning proper back tension REALLY improved my form and that resulted in better shooting and more consistent groups. That's not to say that I don't have bad days where my mind wanders and I'm not focusing. When that happens I don't think about form and just really focuse on what I'm shooting at and things usually come back together. I'm no expert but back tension and focuse is where it's at for me!
If all you have shot is a one-piece longbow, try a recurve with a riser that has some heft to it and is a good fit for you. Lower the draw weight and your shooting accuracy will improve much faster. Going from a compound to a one-piece longbow is going to be tough for anybody. Good luck and stay with it.
Here is just a thought. Coming from a compound that probably weighed 4+ pounds to a longbow that probably weighs under a pound can make holding steady and consistently a bit of a challenge. I'm not saying you should ditch the longbow, but you might try adding a bow quiver to your setup, loaded up with as many arrows as it holds less one. The added weight may help you steady your bow arm since you are used to WAY more mass than you are shooting now. Now shoot that one arrow, concentrating on making that ONE shot count. Then go get the arrow and repeat the procedure. Don't take more than a dozen shots in a session for now, but make each shot with that single arrow count. Work on consistency. Make sure you hold your bow arm steady until the arrow strikes the target.
While 48# is not an overly heavy draw weight, you are used to holding probably 15 to 20 pounds with your compound. Taking too many shots in a session leads to fatigue, which leads to poor form, which leads to inconsistent accuracy.
If you can shoot at home, that is a plus. I sometimes just take my bow out and plan to shoot just one shot. I put all my concentration into making that one shot. If you plan to hunt with your bow, chances are you will get just one shot at a game animal. Practicing placing that one single arrow where you want it will pay dividends in the long run.
One more thing: consider taking longer shots than 10 yards, if you have a safe backstop that is. If you are fighting with arrows that are slightly out of tune, 15 to 20 yards may give the fletches time to make the arrows recover and you may find that you are shooting better than you were at 10.
If that is the case, tuning is definitely in order. Personally, I paper tune. I think it makes form less of a factor and just tells me what the arrows are doing. Bare shaft tuning works great if you have consistent form and release, which may not be the case for you.
Hang in there and stick with it. Nothing is more rewarding than taking game with traditional equipment!
I've struggled with shooting at spots, can't do it for the life of me. I am not a target archer, I am a hunter. 3D target or life size paper is all I shoot now. Makes a world of difference for me.
I try to pick a spot on the 3d target, if I miss but still make a lethal kill that's great... if I hit the same spot I was looking at it's even better. I have gotten myself now to where I can consistently on most days hit a 3D deer target in the 10 ring.
Try changing up your target after you find the correct arrow for your bow.
If you cannot maintain groups smaller than 6" at 10 yards, there is no way you are going to successfully bare shaft tune arrows..... Save bare shaft tuning for later on once you've got your form more consistent..... Traditional archery is about doing the same thing over and over again until it "Becomes " instinctive.
The grip on the bow should be loose and more of a pressure point placement in the same spot each time, rather than a true grip. Rotational draw, solid anchor point, and using even back tension comes with a lot of practice, but that's what it takes to get where you want to be.....
I'd recommend self video so you can see what you are doing and share it with others. It would really help to find other experienced traditional archers to shoot with too.
Well this morning I checked my form out in the mirror, and it seemed good. Looked like I am all lined up.
I took a few pieces of advice and was shooting better.
Thinking back I have always been more accurate shooting AT something, not just a spot on a target. So I tied a tennis ball to my target. Second I implemented the KISS principle, as I think I have started thinking too much about everything I am trying to do and just cannot focus on it all and shoot well. Some advice I got was to think anchor, aim, release. Those two got me shooting much better again. Thanks for all the advice.
After you've done everything else, grab a lighter weight bow, like a 40#'er
Jason-
First remember you just started this trad stuff. It does take a long time to get good! I'm in my 6th year and just now consider myself a good shot.
Very much like you, no instinctive shooters to help me either; totally self taught with the help of G. Fred Abel's books and this website! Terry Green has some good video too!
Like Crittergitter stated: it's about the focus & back tension. Don't keep your elbow up so high! It inhibits the back muscles.
Good luck my friend. PM me if you want some help!
Kenny :archer2:
Kenny, I draw my elbow straight back pretty much in line with the arrow. You recommend something different?
Yeah Ive read Asbell's books too. Ive discovered that I am taking bits and pieces from several people to develop my own "style" I suppose, maybe process is a better word.
In the 1st place..... Stop trying to shoot "groups"!!!
Groups are a "sight thing" (like sighting in a gun, or a compound)
What you are looking for is "consistency"!!!!! Shoot one arrow at a time. Literaly take your bow, and ONE arrow out to shoot. Stand about 5 yards from the target, shoot your arrow, go get it..... It will come!!! When you start to get consistent,(probly in a day or two) then take one step back. Gradually, work your way back from the target over time.....
Your effective range, will be whatever range you can consistently put EVERY arrow in the kill zone. If it's only 10 yards, Go Hunting!!! Just set yourself up for 10 yard shots.
It takes time!!!!! However, If you work at it, you can actually get pretty consistent in a week or two!!!!!
KEEP THE FAITH.....IT IS REWARDING!!!!!
If your wanting quick resutls, you can't beat shooting 3 under and gapping. That's of course after you've got your form down solid.
I wouldn't get so caught up on creating an "identity" as far as, I'm a split finger instinctive traditional bowhunter. Just do what works for you. Try everything.
It's probably been said, I haven't read every post, but get your stance, grip, anchor (even though it's more of a reference point because you never stop pulling), and back tension down. I would blind bale for awhile till everything starts feeling natural. Then you will gain that consistancy in your form. After all that, try that 3 under gap style. I think you'll very surprised how accurate you can be with a trad bow.
Haven't read all the posts here but some things to consider if they have not been brought up.
Have you done a solid eye dominance check?
Have you tried deep hooks or a single deep hook with 2 floating fingers?
Read you are shooting 500's. What grain tips?
3 under made a huge difference to me being crosseye dom. Did gap for a bit to get the form and back to instinctive and getting great results.... Gap shooting is really cool and easy to do. From what I understand most shoot three under when gapping.
I know what your going through. I hit a wall this year as well. For me it was getting the bow and arrows tuned right. Three under was much easier to learn than split as well. Put an old pin sight on so you can take some of the aiming part out and work on form. Once I took it off I shot just as good without it.
Like Axel Rose says "just a little patience, yeah, yeah...." Hang in there, very rare that you become Howard Hill overnight. In my opinion, to be proficient in this game, takes familiarity with the whole process, that takes time. Fun, rewarding time. Just enjoy the journey.
Lessons from a qualified archery coach/instructor will pay for themselves many many times over. I gave a guy just a couple pointers the other day and he went from being all over the bag to hitting the spot he wanted. Problem is and I know this from my own experience, is you think you are doing something when in reality your not anywhere close! Good luck man, seek out professional help, it's always the best thing to do with any addiction;-)
talk to my friend Kasey Karson...he's on here. His avatar name is Kasey and he's in Sevier County TN
Pretty much second everything Kenny wrote. Back tension and concentrating on the spot are key for me to shoot well. I need to be shooting often to maintain my accuracy.
This is just my experience, but I do much better with a recurve. I have tried various longbows.
It may just take longer to master the longbow, but I am sure if you stick with it you will become proficient.
For me, I just enjoy shooting trad. It is my primary passion as far as pastimes go. Hope you are enjoying it too, try not to allow frustration to set in.
FWIW, I picked up the bow again this summer, going trad vs the compound last used in the '80s. I dropped back to 45# but have added a couple of bows since then that are in the 38 - 40 pound range. Most of the time I'm shooting a 52 recurve now.
I found Jeff Cavanaugh's you tube video to be a good help as well Merlin's Archery Adventures and a great gob of others.
Good Form should give some kind of group at 10 yards. Consistency of head position, shoulders, follow through on the bow arm (my worst recurring demon) and the release.
It gets there, somedays better than others. Shooting video of yourself can show you a LOT that you would otherwise think is 'fine'.
I wouldn't say dropping back to a lighter bow is needed, but it might help. If you are having trouble on the bow arm with your current one, it may be better with the lighter poundage.
On the release, if you are plucking the string you can drive yourself nuts too. The description of a proper release being, 'no longer holding the string'works.
Oh.. one more big help.. a deep hook versus a fingertip draw REALLY does help. Intuitively that sounds off, at least to me. However, there be some truth.
Check the area for Traditional archery clubs/groups or even a commercial range.
G'luck
That's what she said...
I left the compound world in 1998. I still catch myself trying to "think" of all the little nuances to shoot better. It seems much better if I go through a simple shot sequence.
1.Set a deep hook with even pressure on all three fingers and at the same time slightly bend the knee under your bow arm.
2.Put a little tension on the string to set the bow in the bow hand. For me that slides the grip into the heel of my hand just to the right of my life line. Good heel pressure makes my bow arm shoulder solid keeping both arms in constant alignment.
3.Relax both hands and forearms (the hard part) and raise the bow arm.
4.When the bow is in position, rotate the string hand elbow into full draw. Do not draw with your hand, draw with your elbow. This will help engage back tension. Anchor is not as consistent as back tension. Anchor should not be thought about, it will induce arm tension that will destroy back tension. Anchor will just happen with back tension.
5.If you need to adjust to be on target, move or bend your whole body keeping your arms in the same alignment with good back tension. (That's why you bent your bow arm knee in step one, if your knees are set you will end up moving one of your arms losing your back tension.)
6.Relax your fingers and LET IT RIP. Enjoy the feel of the shot, forget about the size of your groups. Make every shot feel the same and accuracy will happen.
MOST importantly, go watch Arnie Moe's video's. His explanation of the "rotational draw" is the best thing I've ever seen.
I would say its normal.... Hunt with your compound this fall and try again next year. The biggest turn off to traditional is wounding game.
It took me years and unfortunately some wounded animals to dial it in. There are no short cuts.
With that said, its what makes fanatics out of us that have reached some degree of success.
The old saying of "nothing worth having comes easily" is sort of the traditional mantra.
QuoteOriginally posted by Montanawidower:
I would say its normal.... Hunt with your compound this fall and try again next year. The biggest turn off to traditional is wounding game.
It took me years and unfortunately some wounded animals to dial it in. There are no short cuts.
With that said, its what makes fanatics out of us that have reached some degree of success.
The old saying of "nothing worth having comes easily" is sort of the traditional mantra.
this^
You don't say "Where" in TN. Sent you an email thru TG.
Sevier is a bit West of me yet, but shoot me a note if you're anywhere in NE TN
I've been back to recurves for quiet a few yrs now and not for one second have I thought about even taking one of my compounds off the wall..much less shooting it.
I don't have a thing in the world against compounds or people who shoot them I just enjoy everything about recurves much more.
I have definitely had more than my fair share of misses and I mean 15 steps to about one long step with recurves since coming back. Along with close up shots at...at least Pope and Young bucks that I couldn't take due to recurve in hand instead of compound ...but not once even has the thought of wanting a compound in my hand instead of a recurve intered my mind.
It just is what it is and I rather shoot and hunt with recurves.
I am in Clarksville. Close to Twin Oaks I know, but I have yet to make it down there or meet another trad shooter in person. some of the W. Ky group have invited me to some events at the LBL, but I just haven't had the time to make it there when they are there. Family, work, college, hunting season... not enough time in the day!