Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Crested Finger on October 19, 2015, 01:28:00 PM
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What would you guys choose when it comes to the lower end of carbons? Beman ics bowhunter, victory V-force, or Gold tip hunter? there are probably a few more I am missing.
I have heard a few people say the gold tips are more sturdy than the bemans, I do a good deal of stump style shooting so I would like a strong arrow but I don't have any experience with carbon yet.
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If you are looking to save a few $$$, then the GT Blems that Big Jim sells are about the best buy you can get!
Bisch
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I always try to get the Big Jim Gold Tip blems.
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Never fletched an arrow before, is it something anyone can do? can anyone recommend a cheap jig?
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I usually shoot Beman ICS Bowhunters, but I ordered a dozen GT blems from Big Jim. They are butt ugly (Nugent purple stripe), but I can't beat the price at $45.99 a dozen. He may have some left, the pink or purple are seven dollars cheaper than the less obnoxious colors if that bothers you at all. I figure the critters aren't going to care what color arrow goes through them, so I might as well save a few bucks.
As far as the Gold Tips being tougher than Bemans, I haven't noticed a difference. I've broken both, but I can also say I've beaten the snot out of those Bemans and have no complaints about their durability. The finish is a little slicker on the Bemans, but again, I don't think that makes any difference to a hunting arrow.
Big Jim will ship fast and his shipping charges are as good as anyone's.
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I think the best bang for your buck for economical shafts are Beman ICS Hunters. You will find the spine consistency MUCH better than the GT blems. The GT Trad arrows are better spine matched than the blems. The best spine matched i've found to date are the Victory shafts, but they are more expensive too.
Buying economical carbon shafts is fine, but a lot of guys do not realize just how much spine difference there really is from one shaft to the next with a carbon shaft. All carbon shafts are not created equally.
Just from one side to the other rotating them on a spine tester can make a huge difference on some shafts. Some of these shafts are worse than woodies....... I was shocked....
An archer can only become as consistent as the arrows he shoots......Food for thought.
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Originally posted by Kirkll:
I think the best bang for your buck for economical shafts are Beman ICS Hunters. You will find the spine consistency MUCH better than the GT blems. The GT Trad arrows are better spine matched than the blems. The best spine matched i've found to date are the Victory shafts, but they are more expensive too.
Buying economical carbon shafts is fine, but a lot of guys do not realize just how much spine difference there really is from one shaft to the next with a carbon shaft. All carbon shafts are not created equally.
Just from one side to the other rotating them on a spine tester can make a huge difference on some shafts. Some of these shafts are worse than woodies....... I was shocked....
An archer can only become as consistent as the arrows he shoots......Food for thought.
I agree. I've often tuned carbon arrows by simply turning them to the next fletch. This will often work. Bemans tend to be the most consistent of the arrows I've tried as well. My past experience with Gold Tips was that they seemed to be stiffer than I expected for the marked spine. On the other hand, I've had people say just the opposite, so you probably have a point in terms of consistency.
I thought the blems were supposed to be cosmetic issues only. Now you have me wondering. I guess I'll know in a few days when they get here. Hopefully they will be okay. If not, my granddaughter likes purple, so she may just get some arrows from Grandpa!
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Totally agree with Kirk's comments above.
Bisch
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i shoot GT for everything, they tough and accurate. foot them and there even tougher.
i number all my arrows, and shoot them all with BHs installed before i take them hunting.
out of 10+ dozen of arrows i have had 3 bad arrows is all.
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Well all these responses have left me with a few questions
are the blem shafts purely cosmetic or is the defect deeper than what meets the eye?
What footing would you recommend to make the shafts for stumping proof?
If the economy shafts suffer from spine inconsistency what shafts would you recommend instead still keeping price in mind. Im all about the biggest bang for the least buck.
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Originally posted by Crested Finger:
Well all these responses have left me with a few questions
are the blem shafts purely cosmetic or is the defect deeper than what meets the eye?
What footing would you recommend to make the shafts for stumping proof?
If the economy shafts suffer from spine inconsistency what shafts would you recommend instead still keeping price in mind. Im all about the biggest bang for the least buck.
The blems are advertised as all cosmetic, and a lot of the guys who shoot them say they cannot find the blemsishes on the shafts. I have no experience with the blems, other than what others who do use them have told me.
There is no such thing as a "stumping proof" arrow. You can foot with a couple inch piece of the appropriate size aluminum shaft to help.
It sounds like you are kind of new to the trad game. If so, then get yourself some blems and learn. As you get into this, you will change things a lot, until you finally settle on what is really for you (bows, arrows, gloves, tabs, quivers, broadheads, you name it). The blems will work just fine. You may end up with a "flyer" every once in a while that just will not perform like the others. These flyers are the waaaaay out of spine shafts. If you want really good spine consistency, you will have to shell out 2X (or more) the $$$$ to get it.
I believe the spine consistency thing is a GT quality control issue, and not a blem shaft issue. I shot GT XT Hunter black shafts (non-blems) for years (and killed a bazillion critters with them). GT makes shafts that cost a lot more than the ones I used, and they may very well be very consistent, but I have no experience with them, so cannot comment on that. I always had one of the flyers I described above, until I started spine testing/matching all my shafts. I now shoot Easton FMJ arrows, and consistency is superb, not only between the shafts in a particular dz, but between different dz's bought at different times. The tradeoff is that the FMJ's cost almost twice what the GT shafts did (and about 3X what the GT blems would cost).
Bisch
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thanks for the info Bisch, I have been shooting woods so i figured even cheap carbons would be much more consistent than POC. Don't think I could outshoot those economy shafts so I dont really want to pay out double for quality I might not even be able to notice.
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I didn't read all the posts but I've used Cabelas Stalker shafts. I believe they're actually made by Easton. I killed s bear with one. They shot great. If I'm not mistaken they're about $56/doz.
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Bowhunting is my life,my love and I fully respect the animal I hunt so I look for the best arrow I can use for spine consistency and Weight FMJ are been my choice.
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I was also wondering about the Victory V-force shafts. I saw RMSG has them fletched for the same price as the gt hunters. anyone used them before? how do they stack up to the bemans?
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Big Jim's GT blems more than do the job for me and the price is right. The blem on theses shafts is only cosmetic it in no way affects the overall quality or reliability of the finished arrow. I have taken three does so far this season and have not been let down by my arrow setup.
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GT blems from BigJim for sure
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Lets not leave out the Carbon Express Predators sold by Lancaster archery. Pretty inexpensive....shoot very well. Seems to me I paid around $52-55 a dozen..??? Very good shaft..
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Originally posted by Longtoke:
I was also wondering about the Victory V-force shafts. I saw RMSG has them fletched for the same price as the gt hunters. anyone used them before? how do they stack up to the bemans?
I think the Victory V-force are a step above beman ICS hunters in terms of spine consistency.....but the bemans aren't bad at all.
If you are going from woodies to carbon, you'll enjoy much better consistency in weight and spine variation right from the gate... just build them the same way you do woodies and use a spine tester.... You'll figure out real quick the difference between expensive carbon shafts and cheap ones using a spine tester.
Once you get to the stage in your shooting abilities where you are very consistently hitting your spots, and quit shooting "groups" because you don't want to damage your arrows. That's when you'll start noticing arrow inconsistencies a lot more. When you get a weird flyer and you know you did your job, you start checking your arrows closer.
As you spend more time building your arrows to exact specifications you'll see higher scores at the end of the day, and you'll soon quit shooting cheap carbon arrows completely if you want to get better.....
btw... guys that say they can't shoot the difference in cheap shafts vs expensive ones don't spend enough time with their bows, and most likely suffer from form inconsistency. The same guys will say a pie plate size group at 15 yards is close enough, and go hunting....
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For those that have been asking about the VForce arrows, I've been using them all year. I have the "Sports" and "Elites". The Sports (.006) are their least expensive model and have been fine in terms of tuning. I was also surprised how durable these shafts were. I can't speak for any of the older models, but these shafts have been holding up well for me. I'm currently using them in conjunction with an 100gr insert.
(http://i.imgur.com/xctOhfx.jpg)
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I'm a bit of a weirdo, but my favorite shafts are 2216's. I pay slightly more for them than you can buy the GT blems but I like the extra mass to hit the 600 grain mark and their spine and weight consistency is not only better than carbons within the same dozen, but I now have 5 dozen of them and they are all virtually identical.
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Hard to beat Beman ICS Hunters for the price.
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Originally posted by COMPOUNDLESS IN CONCRETE:
I'm a bit of a weirdo, but my favorite shafts are 2216's. I pay slightly more for them than you can buy the GT blems but I like the extra mass to hit the 600 grain mark and their spine and weight consistency is not only better than carbons within the same dozen, but I now have 5 dozen of them and they are all virtually identical.
There is no doubt that aluminum shafts are king when it comes to weight and spine consistency, but once they hit something really hard, or hit a tree branch, they are typically toast..... You will never straighten an aluminum arrow and still have the same spine deflection or straightness the way they were when new....
2216 super slams were my favorite hunting arrows for many years. But since they've got these carbon arrows down pat, i prefer them because they are either dead straight, or broken... nothing between.
I was out hunting elk years ago and took a nasty fall down a steep bank and bent every arrow in my quiver. 8 arrows down the drain.... I think that was what finally pushed me towards carbon shafts for hunting.
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That's true Krill,hunting whitetail is a close/short distance hunt, but hunting the West is all another story
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IMHO, GT blend are consistent enough for all but the greatest shooters. I really don't think you can tell the difference and the price is great
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Originally posted by awbowman:
IMHO, GT blend are consistent enough for all but the greatest shooters. I really don't think you can tell the difference and the price is great
X2
Plus I shoot all my hunting arrows with BH and make sure they are grouping well within my midwest whitetail range of 18-20 yards (for me anyway). If my arrow does not hit the mark, it is not the GT fault, it is on me.
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Originally posted by Kirkll:
Originally posted by COMPOUNDLESS IN CONCRETE:
I'm a bit of a weirdo, but my favorite shafts are 2216's. I pay slightly more for them than you can buy the GT blems but I like the extra mass to hit the 600 grain mark and their spine and weight consistency is not only better than carbons within the same dozen, but I now have 5 dozen of them and they are all virtually identical.
There is no doubt that aluminum shafts are king when it comes to weight and spine consistency, but once they hit something really hard, or hit a tree branch, they are typically toast..... You will never straighten an aluminum arrow and still have the same spine deflection or straightness the way they were when new....
2216 super slams were my favorite hunting arrows for many years. But since they've got these carbon arrows down pat, i prefer them because they are either dead straight, or broken... nothing between.
I was out hunting elk years ago and took a nasty fall down a steep bank and bent every arrow in my quiver. 8 arrows down the drain.... I think that was what finally pushed me towards carbon shafts for hunting. [/b]
I've never had an aluminum shaft bend or break that wouldn't have yielded the same result with a carbon shaft, on a fall or hard side impact they are definitely more prone to bending but I still prefer them. One thing that made me try the 2216's was they come in at 34" full length, so for a gap shooter like me that helps keep my point on distance at around 22-23 yards or so. If carbons came at that length, with a heavier gpp, I wouldn't hesitate to use them.
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Well, I am not sure about the spine consistency. All I can tell you is I have won more tourneys with the goldtip blems than I can remember. I think it has far more to do with the indian behind the bow than the stick being shot.
I have a buddy, Rusty Horne, who is one of the best shots I have ever shot with. I believe he would cut down a sappling, cut a nock out, and without feathers hit the 10 ring.
I often ask him about his set ups because I absolutely love dissecting every part of my arrow and building my "perfect" arrow. He often replies, " i don't know anything about any of that".
I say all that to say just get the arrows and shoot. If you're concerned about durability, foot them with an aluminum shaft. If you're seriously concerned about the durability, don't shoot anything that they will break on. I'd bet 95% of all the arrows out there shot into a concrete wall at point blank ranges will either shove the insert up in the shaft or have it bounce out.
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From your list they are probably the top three in the reverse order you listed them and just as with bows, used ones would be my choice to go on the cheap