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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: VA Elite on October 15, 2015, 12:28:00 PM

Title: "Too Young??"
Post by: VA Elite on October 15, 2015, 12:28:00 PM
I read an interesting article written by Gene Wensel on Brothers of the Bow titled "Too Young"...in a nut shell, it was about this younger generation being spoiled when it comes to deer hunting. I have to say it was one of, if not the most, on the spot article about hunting I have ever read. Kudos Mr. Gene!

http://www.brothersofthebow.com/tooyoung.htm
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: dirtguy on October 15, 2015, 02:05:00 PM
Thanks for the link.  This article is spot on.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: Bladepeek on October 15, 2015, 02:30:00 PM
X2 for sure. I think the woods is starved for kids hunting small game.

Our club runs 3 hunter safety classes/year. Every year my phone rings off the hook with moms (usually) trying to get their kids into the class after we have already held the last one. These are not kids who have been dreaming all year of getting out to hunt. Its a case of last minute "Oh hey. If I want to hunt I guess I'd better sign up for a class". Michigan even allows an apprentice hunter to hunt without taking the class for the first couple of years. Obviously, the intent is to get them hooked so they will buy a hunting license each year.

I have friends with young grand kids who are consummate hunters already, can hold their own tracking a deer and are already better shots with a bow than I. My problem is with the other kids who are used to instant gratification without any paying of dues. For that I blame the parents -not the kids.

I recently watched a post on facebook where a tradbow shooter was demonstrating his skills shooting a moving target and snuffing a candle in low light. Excellent shot and I applauded his skill. Then this same guy gets his little granddaughter (probably - I don't remember for sure) who is not even old enough to hold a bow by herself and proceeds to help her shoot a target on a hay bale with one of the barn cats playing directly under the bulls eye. She was obviously not shooting the bow - he was. She THOUGHT she was shooting it, though. What kind of message is that planting in her brain? What kind of responsibility training is she experiencing? This is responsible parenting?

My granddaughter (age 8) is shooting a .22 under supervision. She shoots her own Maddog bow. She wants to go out deer hunting with dad. And she will eventually. I can guarantee you, that will not be her first hunting experience and she will be a hunter before she hunts her first big game.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: JohnV on October 15, 2015, 02:42:00 PM
A great, thought-provoking article.  Also one that would not be well-received in most of the popular hunting magazines.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: VA Elite on October 15, 2015, 02:47:00 PM
well said Blade....right now my oldest son is 10 yrs old. he has been shooting a compound for a few years but not very regularly. This summer he began to shoot quite often and I never pushed it on him. He chose when to shoot. As time went by i saw how interested he was becoming in how to properly shoot a bow. So I took him to the shop and bought him a nicer bow. he began shooting it daily. Each day was better. He asked when he could hunting. I told him him when he can put 6 arrows in the vitals at 10 yds and pull over 30# with his bow. Well, he has gotten stronger and more accurate, he put those arrows in there and he can pull over 30#...I have taken him with me twice to hunt, but he was not to shoot at deer...he doesn't have broadheads yet. I want him to go and not see deer, get bored, and understand that it is not like the videos/shows...I told him you come home empty handed and not seeing anything more than anything else....when the time is right he will hunt and shoot
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: on October 15, 2015, 02:52:00 PM
When I was a kid late 50s into the 60s, there was not one area farmer that cared if I was in their grove trying to shoot pheasants, squirrels and rabbits with my blunts and recurves. All of the area mean old farm dogs knew me as the kid with the milk bones in his pocket.  Many of the big farm groves are gone, rabbit numbers are not what they used to be, and easy access to any private land is history.  Kids would rather play pretend killing games on iPhones these days, I would rather take a longbow, a quiver full of cedar arrows with blunts and go rabbit and pheasant hunting.  Even kids with hunting parents get cheated when the zealous parent makes everything a sure thing and takes all of the adventure out of the process.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: ARCHER2 on October 15, 2015, 03:06:00 PM
Excellent article sir. I agree 100% !
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: Phillip Fields on October 15, 2015, 03:34:00 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Wensel.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: Turkey-duke on October 15, 2015, 04:13:00 PM
My father treated it much the same way.  Although he never stated I had to graduate to deer hunting, it was how he approached it.  I started out hunting squirrels and rabbits and once I was able to prove I could consistently kill squirrels and understood the ethics and morality of the situations then he was willing to take me deer hunting.  I have said to many people over the years that if my first experience hunting had been my first deer hunt, I would have never gone back and my life would have taken a drastically different path.  The first time I ever went deer hunting it was cold and rainy and just an overall nasty day.  we froze out before lunch but went back out after we warmed up and dried out.  That was a miserable day, but I was hooked on hunting before that and there was no amount of misery that would deter me from hunting at that point.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: VA Elite on October 15, 2015, 04:22:00 PM
yep squirrel hunting got me first
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: TxAg on October 15, 2015, 04:50:00 PM
2 is certainly too young, but I've seen a lot of 6 and 7 year olds kill deer and pigs. I don't have a problem with that.

Personally, I try not to over complicate things when it comes to hunting. After all, it is supposed to be fun. We all have an idea of what is "right" and "wrong."  That's what make the world go 'round.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: VA Elite on October 15, 2015, 05:06:00 PM
some kids can appreciate life and the taking of it from a young age. many more cant. but to push a young kid to kill at 2,3,4 years old is a bit crazy
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: pdk25 on October 15, 2015, 06:45:00 PM
Can't find much to disagree with in the article.  Well said.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on October 15, 2015, 07:26:00 PM
It was nice reading this article again. The world of instant gratification is upon us and I feel sorry for any kids who are not mentored properly into appreciating the real things in life.

Good article Gene.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: ChuckC on October 15, 2015, 09:26:00 PM
I guess I should read Gene's article first, but in response to Tx,  I have thought about this quite a bit and I myself DO find issues with taking young kids out and letting them kill deer and pigs.

They need to know about hunting, maybe even go with daddy or uncle, but I feel that they need to grow up just a bit more before they take a life, so that they have enough brains and maturity to understand just what they are doing.

Young kids can certainly kill a deer, but I myself think that they should watch and learn for a while first and be taught to revere life and that it is not just another video game with no repercussions.

ChuckC
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: VA Elite on October 15, 2015, 09:32:00 PM
chuck I agree. I'm not saying there is a set age or number but like a young boy that hunts with my club has done. he has killed  15-20 deer and a few of them have been really nice bucks. the last buck he killed was a good one and not 5 mins after he killed it, he was playing in a mud puddle and throwing sticks. just didn't sit well with me. I will take my son bow into g this year with the intention of letting him get him shot, with that said, the second he shows immaturity before or after the shot, I will reconsider his next hunt .
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: VA Elite on October 15, 2015, 09:34:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by VA Elite:
chuck I agree. I'm not saying there is a set age or number but like a young boy that hunts with my club has done. he has killed  15-20 deer and a few of them have been really nice bucks. the last buck he killed was a good one and not 5 mins after he killed it, he was playing in a mud puddle and throwing sticks. just didn't sit well with me. I will take my son bowhunting this year with the intention of letting him get a shot, with that said, the second he shows immaturity before or after the shot, I will reconsider his next hunt .
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: sou-pawbowhunter on October 16, 2015, 08:58:00 AM
Spot on article. Often, shortcuts do little more than shortchange those who take them.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: OBXarcher on October 16, 2015, 09:08:00 AM
I agree 100%. My best friend's two sons have been killing since they were 8. One wounded two deer last year (now 13 years old). He couldn't have cared less he wounded them, just go shoot at more.
Neither boy could tell you the difference between and oak and maple tree either.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: Nantahala Nut on October 16, 2015, 10:08:00 AM
I agree with Chuck and the article.  I am 28 so I grew up in the generation they are talking about. A lot of people in my age group and especially younger are looking for instant gratification without the work. I don't think its just younger people now, though it is definitely more prevalent.  This mindset of making things faster and easier rather than developing skill and putting time into something has become a disease in this country. I think some of it has to do with our values changing. People are pushed to work more and commute longer and that doesn't leave much time for doing things the old fashioned way.  My father took me along hunting for 5 years before I could carry a firearm.  I think I learned a lot in that time seeing his patience and reverence for the wildlife. I remember when me and my friends turned 12 we were so excited to hunt.  

My wife and I welcomed our second son (our first passed last year) and that really saved me from getting lost in that mindset.  I have been forcing myself to step away from work and really focus on the important things. Now I spend more time with my family and on hobbies (hunting & farming) that I find fulfilling and wholesome.  We bought a house way out in the country where the pace of life is delightfully slower. I took up squirrel hunting this year so that someday I can teach my little boy.
I hope more people from my generation wake up and remember that its okay to do things the slow way and its ok to take extra days off to be with family. We don't need to do everything as quickly and efficiently as possible. Maybe then attitudes towards hunting will shift back to the way things used to be.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: VA Elite on October 16, 2015, 10:27:00 AM
Wow....Nantahala, I believe you were born to the wrong generation my friend, maybe about 20 years too late.. good to know we have some younger men like you out there.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: dbd870 on October 16, 2015, 10:54:00 AM
I think it depends on the kid but at 5.5 my grandson is a ways away from being ready to hunt.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: T Sunstone on October 16, 2015, 11:55:00 AM
Great article and I have been saying the same thing for years.  I wasn't allowed to hunt deer until I was 13.  It gave me some thing to look forward to and appreciate even more because of the wait.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: Danny Rowan on October 16, 2015, 01:13:00 PM
Most younger people today as well as kids are definitely into self gratification and instant whatever. I was taught you work for what you want and you become skilled in what you do. I see it at work all the time, most just want to come to work, do nothing and get paid, same with going into the woods, kill a deer right now, never mind about learning woodsmanship and becoming skilled at what you do, just shoot it wherever and if it is wounded, oh well there are plenty more. If I would have done something like that my Dad, rest his soul, would have broken every bow and arrow I owned and sold all of my guns. He taught me that when you hunt you eat what you kill and you never kill for the sake of killing. Great article.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: Hoyt on October 16, 2015, 06:24:00 PM
I think you should be able to hunt before shooting a deer. hog, turkey or anything else where all you have to do is sit in a blind let someone else cradle the gun and you squeeze the trigger. Or just play games on the cell phone till something shows up.

Actually it's a shame so much time is lost playing the newest games on and phone or sleeping  while in a popup or shooting house, time that could be spent walking the woods hunting squirrels, rabbits, quail or whatever small game is available and learning just what goes on in the woods. What makes this sign or track or sound.

How to identify birds and animals just by their sounds and tracks and marks they make. Knowing what specie of bird it is when all you can see is a black spot just by the wing cadence and shape of wings.

Knowing what fish made which pop, splash or boil from sound and sight of the splash and in many cases just the sound.

I knew all these things before I was 12 yrs old. In most cases just by asking "What was that Daddy"?

I wonder what the odds are with the youth of today to have a dove, robin and Tilly or Sparrow Hawk flying off at a distance to where they were just black silhouettes and have them pick out the dove.

All three fly similar and have similar shaped wings..it's the cadence of wing beats that sets them apart along with the hawks slightly longer wings..could throw a pigeon in the mix but that would be making it really too hard.

This is just my opinion and a shame all this knowledge of what goes on outdoors is being swept aside in place of I really don't know what does replace really being in touch with the outdoors.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: woodchucker on October 16, 2015, 06:46:00 PM
My sentiments EXACTLY!!!!!

While I would never even TRY to compete with Brother Gene, in the writing department... I started a thread in the "Hunting Legislation & Policies" Forum, Titled, "Teaching Our Youth" A Woodchucker's Ramblings... that pretty much echoes the same feelings.

I'll try & bring it up for those interested.....
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: on October 16, 2015, 07:52:00 PM
That was an awesome article!

Bisch
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: Onions on October 16, 2015, 09:16:00 PM
Great article, and thread. Really enjoy reading everyone's comments on this.
I agree with everything said, and its encouraging to know, there are others out there trying to teach there young ones, the "old ways" (patience, apprenticeship, respect for the animal, woodsmanship, etc), sometimes I feel that I am the only one left with those vaule's.

My buddies, already have there 5 and 7 year old kids shooting deer, (off the bait pile)while dad holds the gun. Once the deer is down, it's back to the movie, in there elevated heated blind, where the 4-wheeler is parked underneath.


chris <><
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: achigan on October 16, 2015, 11:51:00 PM
www.facebook.com/Brothers-of-the-Bow-233073192552/ (http://www.facebook.com/Brothers-of-the-Bow-233073192552/)
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: 30coupe on October 16, 2015, 11:58:00 PM
Great article. Thanks for posting the link VA! My youngest will be 31 next month, but I have six grandkids, so I sent this link to each of my kids.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: VA Elite on October 17, 2015, 04:20:00 AM
I still say the article holds many truths
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: Petrichor on October 17, 2015, 05:44:00 AM
Great article and I can't wait till my kids can hunt with me. That will be a great day indeed. I think one of the best things that we can do in the meantime that translates to skills needed for hunting like patience, coming home empty handed,woods manship, and respect  can all be taught in fishing.
Title: Re: "Too Young??"
Post by: Medic85 on October 17, 2015, 12:56:00 PM
Very good article