Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Matty on August 28, 2015, 09:32:00 PM
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Starting my journey into wood arrows..
Is this a good product for sealing? Do I need to thin it. Going to be running the shafts into a dip tube with a gasket top..
All input helps. Thanks in advance. Matty
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee256/krakka17/image.jpg1_9.jpg) (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/krakka17/media/image.jpg1_9.jpg.html)
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Tag to follow
Can you use urethane with a gasket? I've only ever used gasket lacquer. I'm trying wipe on poly, but I'm wiping it on, I wonder if I could dip with it?
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It should be fine. I use Minwax Wipe On for my shafts but have used their spar varnish on masts, booms and yards. Holds up well outdoors.
But you are going to have to thin it down for gasket use. Don't know how that will work.
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Yes its an excellent sealer for arrows and very durable. I've used it a lot. Thin with mineral spirits about 2/3 poly and 1/3 spirits. Dip without the gasket.
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I like the min wax poly seal. You can get it with stain added,, a lot of small can applications available. Just steel wool in between and you are good to go. You can use blue tape for applying a krylon spray painted cap and seal and stain the remainder of the shaft. For me it's less mess and less material. Get good shafts and enjoy. Tom
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I have noticed that over time the spar urethane will "yellow" the crown area if painted white. Other than that it works just fine.
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It will work fine.
I personally dilute to 50/50 ratio,
Spar is a slow dry finish
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What Westbrook said would be my suggestion as well. 3-4 coats lightly sanded or wooled between each. Green Scotchbrite works pretty good, too.
Spar finishes are made a bit softer than the regular polys so they can move as the wood swells and contracts with change in weather. This makes it more likely to target burn. Thin coats helps it cure harder.
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I use gloss fast drying Minwax oil based poly thinned 50/50 with mineral spirits. It gives a rock hard finish and does not target burn. 0000 steel wool rubdown between coats. I usually do three dips with no gasket. Let'em drip dry after allowing excess to run. I let it drip until it drips to about one drop per second while holding it over the dip tube and then hang.
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Wow. Thanks for all the great advice guys. Some of the "who's who" of arrow making. I'll go out and get whatever the correct thing to use is. I simply get confused with all the terms
ie. spar urethane, polyurethane, gasket laquor, "wipe on poly", poly seal..I get to wondering if these are actual product names or names we give a product.
BUD B. Is this the product you use?
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee256/krakka17/image.jpg1_10.jpg) (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/krakka17/media/image.jpg1_10.jpg.html)
I have this on hand obviously. But reading it tells me LITERALLY "for exterior wood surfaces we recommend HELMSMAN SPAR URETHANE" that's why I bought the other one. Assuming I'm going to be outside in the elements with my arrows. That's the product to get...I have no concern about yellowing. As I'm not painting or putting a cap on my arrows. But target burn may be of some concern. Thanks for any and all of the help. I really appreciate it.
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I see you have satin, actually the FD high gloss is what you want if you're going to use poly. A very hard finish once cured. Not immune to some target burn, but it's a close second behind gasket lacquer. As has been said before, don't use the gasket with poly.....just dip and allow it to drain back into your tube. Steel wool and wipe with a towel after the first coat is cured (gotta give this stuff a full 24 hrs between coats) and then you should be able to go to 3-4 coats total without further scuffing.
Take your time and Have fun!
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This stuff
(http://www.thepaintstore.com/v/vspfiles/photos/M71030-1.jpg)
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I have a tutorial on this website, here is the link...
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000138
I also have a tutorial on the Professional Bowhunters Society (PBS) site...
http://www.probowsociety.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2775
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Thanks a million fellas. Off to hunt elk. For a day. Monday will be arrow making day!
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I think I'm using the same stuff as budb if that is the blue can Water based stuff. I've gone 100% water based. Wipe on poly over Water based stain, Water based acrylics for crown and cresting. Wipe on over the top when done. Duco and platinum stick very well. Plus, it doesn't catch fire if I'm careless with the feather burner. :biglaugh:
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Spar Urethane is all I use and I use the gasket system. I have found the finish very hard, durable and not prone to target burn. Love making woodies!
D.P.
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Dave, that's interesting. I'll have to give it a test. How's the shelf life of SU in a dip tube?
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Originally posted by monterey:
I think I'm using the same stuff as budb if that is the blue can Water based stuff. I've gone 100% water based. Wipe on poly over Water based stain, Water based acrylics for crown and cresting. Wipe on over the top when done. Duco and platinum stick very well. Plus, it doesn't catch fire if I'm careless with the feather burner. :biglaugh:
Mine is oil based.
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Green,
It will start developing a crust on top if you don't use it for a while (10 days or so depending on humidity and temperature). I just take that part out of the tube and start the next batch. I have never had an issue.
D.P.
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Heat up some Walrus or Spotted Seal oil coat 3 times dry for 3 days than use Mini WAX polyU ,Spotted Seal oil goes on easier but both condition arrows from moisture ...arrows stay straighter in wet and very cold weather.
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Originally posted by bowheadhunter:
Heat up some Walrus or Spotted Seal oil coat 3 times dry for 3 days than use Mini WAX polyU ,Spotted Seal oil goes on easier but both condition arrows from moisture ...arrows stay straighter in wet and very cold weather.
Oh...how silly am I?! :rolleyes:
Duh. Every Coloradan keeps spotted seal and walrus in their basement! I had just been saving mine for Christmas dinner and putting a protective coating on my 4 runner. Why didn't you say something sooner....
:smileystooges: :laughing:
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Oh...how silly am I?! [Roll Eyes]
Duh. Every Coloradan keeps spotted seal and walrus in their basement! I had just been saving mine for Christmas dinner and putting a protective coating on my 4 runner. Why didn't you say something sooner....
come up Sitka AK I give you some ,,,GREAT for making Eskimo donuts also,,
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Eskimo donuts!! Now that's something I gotta try!!! I love donuts!!
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Ground bowhead whale bones and bone marrow(deer or Elk BONES ) ,buck wheat flour add sugar ,dried white fish ,fresh black bellies add yeast sit 30 hours at room temp(TURNS A LITTLE SOUR) ,boil seal or walrus fat or lard make round balls drop in boiling fat or lard THAN cook till golden brown ,goes great making arrows on a cold night when wife has playing cards with the ladies . Smells WORSE than the burning feathers for your arrows but tastes great,be near the bathroom after eating the donuts ,,
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Ok here's my update. My 1 day of elk hunting was a bust. Saw nothing. Heard nothing. I think with the high temps and the full moon. They are hunkering down in the trees. And feeding at night. Not making excuses. Just a theory. I have plenty of time..
ANYWAY.
So I put 3 coats of stain on my arrows (2 sets of 6, 2 different spines and weights) till I got them to a color I was happy with. Nice and rich. Let them dry for a few days.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee256/krakka17/image.jpg1_11.jpg) (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/krakka17/media/image.jpg1_11.jpg.html)
Last night. Mixed 1:1 min wax FD high gloss poly : mineral spirits. Put it in the dip tube. Started dipping 1 by one. And hung to dry. That was 7 pm. Today I had a break at 11. Shot home and thought I'd check on them.. As most of you said 24 hrs. To dry I thought they'd be tacky. But they weren't. They were dry. I mean DRY. and so I figured I'll do a scuff with fine steel wool and do another dip. So I did that. They scuffed nice. Wiped them with a clean cloth. And back in the dipper and back to hang dry. That was at 11:30 today. Had to go back to work at 1:00 and figured I'll put them outside in the hot summer sun and air dry outside. So at 12:45 I grabbed them to put out. And they already felt dry. But I put them out anyway. It's now 400. And I can tell you. They SEEM AS DRY as they were this afternoon from the dip last night. They are gorgeous and glossy too.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee256/krakka17/image.jpg2_5.jpg) (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/krakka17/media/image.jpg2_5.jpg.html)
These are very exciting times...
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Being dry enough to work does depend on your weather and location, time of year etc. In my case I do not want to put in the sun. The temp can be over 115 degrees on a day like today. That will cause the finish to blister. I wait until the wood is dry to the touch then move to a sunny spot. This helps to cure the finish faster.
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I can dip three times in one day with 1:1. I also re-check for straight between each dip. Steel wool before the check. I can usually tell if they're dry enough by the droplet on the down end when hung. If I can touch it and it's dry, then I know the rest is. I think the 1:1 or 50/50 ratio helps with that.
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Matty, I have the same experience with the faster curing time.
Also had the same experience Sunday seeking elk. Too warm and too much moon! Going to try to slip into a travel route to a feeding area in hopes they will come in before dark.
I like the look you have going on your shafts. What was your stain combination?
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Hey guys thanks for all the help. I hope after this experience I go to wood full time. But we'll see about that.
BUD B. Yes! I can't help to think "why not?" I'll do 6 hrs apart.
Thanks for the straightening tip...but I only had to minimally straighten one. They came straight. I've been spinning them on rollers and I'm impressed.
I just did my 3rd and what I think FINAL DIP. They already look good. And for a test set probably good enough.
Here's another question.
What difference would more dipping make? Stronger/ Harder finish? What's enough? What's overkill?
Monterey: I wanted to keep them simple. No cresting no crown, I like simple and more of a primitive look. So I went with just stain to closely match the woods in my bows.
Ebony and provincial (55-59)
Ebony and red mahogany (61-64)
Doug fir from surewood. When all is done I should be pushing a 600 gr 29.5" arrow.
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They're looking good Matt. 3 coats of finish is plenty. Get them fletched up and flying. Then order some shafts and start all over again. Arrow building gets kind of addicting.
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The 1:1 ratio definitely dries faster. If you hang them indoors, then as has been said, the sun won't blister them and any wind won't leave a rough finish on that side. Just remember....there's a difference between "dry" and "cured". Let your last coat have 24 to be sure. As Bud B. said, the final drop on the tail of the shaft is a good indicator of your cure. Have fun and post a pic of your finished arra's!
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Originally posted by meathead:
They're looking good Matt. 3 coats of finish is plenty. Get them fletched up and flying. Then order some shafts and start all over again. Arrow building gets kind of addicting.
Yes you are correct. And there's several hundred in the basement already waiting their turn!
And thanks Green. YES. dry vs. CURED
Got it that makes sense
Also they seemed "dry" before I put them outside and it's been low wind, so wasn't worried about something sticking to them. But never thought about "blistering" but they were ok.
More pics later.
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Additional dips can get the lighter grain-per-inch weight shafts up to a closer reading on the heavier shafts, if there's not a huge variance.
If your extreme is 420 on the low side and 440 on the high side, then an extra dip or two might bring them lower ones to within 10gr or so of the higher weight shafts. I have never weighed any to check to see the increase. My shooting ain't accurate enough to tell the difference. :(
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Those look great Matty. Well done
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Ok so here they are after 3 coats. I weighed them all. And I'm very excited to report that they are all still within 4 grains! I weighed them before and they have only gained about 2-3 grains each. Which I think is quite insignificant.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee256/krakka17/image.jpg1_12.jpg) (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/krakka17/media/image.jpg1_12.jpg.html)
The nocks aren't permanently on. Just pre planning and color matching. I'm super happy with the final results of the shaft simple and sexy!
Now onto nocks and feathers!!!
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Ok fellas first batch complete! THANK YOU ALL who helped with your advice! They are nothing fancy. But that was my goal. Simple stained, sealed, fletched. They took a while to do. I only have 1 fletching jig. That makes for a slow go. I'll shoot them tomorrow. If they work like I hope, they will be accompanying me on my elk hunt this coming week.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee256/krakka17/image.jpg1_13.jpg) (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/krakka17/media/image.jpg1_13.jpg.html)
And here's the business end 130gr Grizz sharpened by my boy Ferretwyo! That alone makes them dangerous to elk. They might just fall over dead knowing randy held them.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee256/krakka17/image.jpg2_7.jpg) (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/krakka17/media/image.jpg2_7.jpg.html)
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:thumbsup: