I work at a archery shop I'm the only trad guy but I've learned alot and enjoy working on bows and cross bows. We sell a very good selection of both. Today I worked with a guy for a good hour looking at cross bows and when he asked what I shot I told him a martin savanah stealth long bow 45lbs. He couldn't believe I'd even consider going in the woods with a bow that low. He actually called it unethical and tried to make me feel guilty. I couldn't believe it. I just smiled and sold him his cross bow before he left hr chuckled while saying save up for a good a big boy bow. I smiled again and watched him walk out but inside I felt kind of bad has anyone ever experienced this. Usually people are fascinated by trad
You can't fix ignorance!!
I'm not sure what he meant he didn't even buy a big boy bow? :goldtooth: There are people like that every where. The one that really gets me is the rifle hunters who buy x-bows so they can bow hunt the rut. You acted appropriately although it's tough to do.
Some people are so ignorant and rude. Clearly he is uninformed about the lethality of trad gear. You have more self control than I do. You were very professional!
It's been my observation that it's usually the other way around with the shop employee or owner denigrating the choice of the trad guy.
Not saying so to in any way cast any aspersions on you personally, it's just been my experience. I live in the Denver area and if it weren't for RMSG, I would never walk into an archery shop.
That mentality leaves a lot to be desired. Be proud to be a traditional archer, you're among a unique group of folks!
Have you ever hunted any of the state game areas in the southern lower?
The last few years I have had to seek out new areas to hunt and my boys and I tried to hunt a few of these.
There are defined parking areas and you are in close quarters to other hunters when hunting these. In the last four years we have encountered only ONE "bowhunter" using a compound bow...the rest have ALL been crossbows.
SEVERAL times we had other guys tell us that we look "ridiculous" with our recurves, or that deer will only duck our arrows.
The WORST part is when they cock a crossbow, load an arrow on the thing and proceed to point the loaded "bow" at everyone and everything as they carry it...as if it is harmless.
A friend of one guy that I got into trad archery kept saying things like no power, never kill a deer, not a real bow. I got tired of hearing his bs and went and got a tennis ball, tossed it on the roof of my garage and shot it as fell in front of the target. He said, 'see, no power, my bow would have shot clean through the tennis ball.'
You did good. But next time just point him to the YouTube video of "Untamed" by Clay Hayes. Then ask him what he thinks of Trad Bow Hunting.
Steve
I watched a You-Tube video of one of these so-called experts who confessed that he was going over to Traditional. I made the mistake of responding by simply saying good choice as I have no interest in Compound bows. He took offense of me not having interest in wheel bows and went on a rant. What scares me is I have been told that compound and crossbows make up 95% of the archery market. To me that means that only 5% of people claiming to be in archery are truely in archery.
I believe in behaving with grace...to a point. I will not have anyone accuse me of being unethical to my face nor say I look ridiculous without very kindly putting them in their place. I understand not wanting to lose a customer but I would have had that guy leaving the shop with me having the last word, not him, and he would have left buying his contraption anyway. Its the damn McDonald's ignorant trash mentality rampant in our country, not to say that ignorance hasn't existed in every age. Screw em.
Deleted
Never mind I have more class than this LOL
A title of a Wensel book comes to mind..."And the Horse You Rode In On"
QuoteOriginally posted by Sean B:
You can't fix ignorance!!
You CAN fix ignorance.......what you can't fix is stupid. ;)
Are we to endure the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or should we take arms against a sea of troubles, and, by opposing, end them? Hamlet had it right. Give these naysayers as good as you get, if not better.
Just make a "bragging" book of a bunch of trad kills, this continent or any other and when someone talks like that, show them of trad bows light and heavy dropping critters all over, and for a few hundred years. Some people are just poorly informed. And why wouldn't they be? Bowhunting keeps growing. With that comes the marketing of a bigger, better, faster, easier world. I have a subscription to an archery magazine that I won't name, but its popular, and I dont even read it. They just sit there waiting for the subscription to die off. But thats what most folks know and see.
You should have said to him when YOU grow up you'll get a real bow not a wheel bow!
I would simply tell him to try and keep up.RC
God, help that guy!!! Thanks for the humility to not be a bad exampel of a way of life that some great hunters will never be able to grasp.
QuoteOriginally posted by RC:
I would simply tell him to try and keep up.RC
I like that response!
Did you ask him what kind of bow his husband shots?
I like RC's response.
No sense looking equally like an AH. There are those sorts in every walk of life. They buy a hot rod car and are instantly NASCAR material. They buy a high end bow and feel that makes them a pro. What they need to do is add an attachment port, one to each side so he can hang two GoPro's onb long arms and take video of his greatness.
ChuckC
QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Mecredy:
Did you ask him what kind of bow his husband shots?
LMAO!!! :clapper:
If I were a dealer I wouldn't sell crossbows period...I tell people to get a real bow (compound or traditional)
Some folks just have not seen the light.........and have no clue!
Bisch
I always thought WE shot the big boy bows. No let off, generally no release, sights, etc. That's not to even mention Xbows. Oh well, there are a lot of morons in the world, we're bound to run into one from time to time.
Bob
I had the reverse to happen to me once. Went into a bow shop in North Carolina in the '70s and when the shop owner ask me what sight I used, and I told him "none", he came unglued!
I was with my two older brothers that also hunted "bare bow". I figure the guy is still upset!!!
My dad had this happen at an archery shop once. He was actually shooting a compound, but it was one of the old wood riser ones around 15 years old at the time with no sights. He took it in to get the string replaced and a couple of guys started criticizing the bow, and him for shooting such a dinosaur. He walked back to his truck and got a picture album with 15 years worth of nice bucks with that bow propped up on them. That pretty well ended the laughing. The shop tech was grinning the whole time since he sold the bow to my dad originally and knew what it was capable of in the right hands. I know it's not really traditional, but it's a similar scenario.
Matt
You can only hunt with an X bow if your handicapped or over 60 during bow season or you can use one during the rifle season here in MN. Every year when the regs come out I cringe thinking they will make them legal for,everyone during the archery season as I see more and more store selling them.
So,you could of said enjoy you handicap elderly bow.
Or even better you could have reminded him of the fall of the Roman Empire and that there crossbows were no match for the English archers with there longbows!!
Tim
you should collect pictures from here of all the 45# bows killing hogs, deer, bear and more...and then educate them. Ignorance is no excuse and the media and pro shops do nothing to downplay it as they make money on accessories and upgrades and trade ins every year or two as the newest and best comes out.
Every year I run into perfectly healthy men with crossbows in Iowa, all claiming to be disabled because their shoulder hurts. When one of them was shooting his kids bow, I pointed out that he did not look disabled, He said, "Not with that bow it's only set at 50 pounds, I can shoot that all day. Besides, a couple of years ago I did hurt my shoulder with a 75 pound bow." Apparently, once you get your foot in the crossbow door you have a free pass for life.
poor guy, more money than common sense.
This year, for the first time, crossbows are allowed in West Virginia, during archery season. It started out for disabled hunters only.
I would have no problem allowing them during gun season or in a short special season, but do not think they should be allowed during archery season. With muzzleloading season and several different firearm "antlerless" seasons now... Real archers are losing more and more of our hunting time.
$$$$$
Sorry to rant.
I once has a guy scoff at my 65# longbow (which is pretty stout compared to a 45). He was shooting a cranked up speed wheeler and i offered him an opportunity to shoot it. He got about halfway into the draw and started to wobble and grunt. I told him you start light and move up.
he kept it zipped and was very nice to me after that.
...as for your "friend"... only the willing can be cured of ignorance and will is not easily maneuvered. Don't worry. You know what you know.
Yep, I had it happen one time. Only once though. A shop owner told me I was unethical. He said the animals deserved better. We owe them better than that he said. We should shoot equipment that gets complete penetration, so the animal will die quickly. In 47 years of doing this, there has never been a big game animal that I have not shot completely through. There have of course been a couple less than stellar hits.
I've read about these interactions such as here but I have never, in my 45 years in archery have had such a thing happen in my presence.
34 of those archery years I shot a compound. I was just as much an archer then as before and now.
An owner/salesperson must bite their tongue or hurt their bottom line which can do financial harm for their family.
I agree with most that you did well to tolerate the misinformed customer.
However, no one would get by with suggesting that I'm unethical without a lecture. That person would be a bit less ignorant after the exchange. Some people go through life unchallenged and therefore remain ignorant of certain things.
My dad said it best one day, the compound will be the ruination (one of his made up words) of archery. Look where archery has come from and where it is going to. Now the crossbow! What is next for our sport?
Keep in mind that many who post on traditional web sites go to the compound to hunt and some go to the crossbow. Go to a trad shoot and just listen to folks talk about hunting and you will realize that the traditional hunter is in the minority in this sport.
About the only place a traditional archer/hunter can buy supplies are at shoots. We are lucky to have a very faithful group of businesses to attend shoots so we can pick up the things we need. The mom and pop archery shop, like my dad had back in the 60's is long gone.
If it is legal then by all means use the equipment that meets your desires. Me I went from traditional to compound to traditional to primitive. I could care less anymore what folks use but I will not be preached to.
I honestly think that a lot of guys feel intimidated when they see some of us using equipment that requires more skill and effort than there's. I have had guys tell me that they couldn't do what I do. When I joined the Marines I knew guys that flat out said that they couldn't do it and they treated me differently after knowing I was a former Marine, some became very jealous especially those from other branches. Sorry but it's true.
You, as a salesman, handled it perfectly. Keep your mouth shut and make the sale silently realizing your customer is a jerk.
I had the exact opposite happen when the cable guy showed up to do some work and spied my "Traditional Bowhunter" license tags holder. He wowed me with how fast his compound was, how far away he could hit a deer and through very small openings too. I asked him if he'd like to see a bow (ILF with carbon limbs and arrows) and me take a few shots and he jumped at the chance since he'd never seen a traditional bow shot before.
Luckily I put 4 arrows into a softball sized group around the spot from 25 yards and he was greatly impressed with the quietness of the bow, the perceived speed and accuracy and the solid impact the arrows made in the target. Needless to say he was impressed and enjoyed the little demonstration.
He wanted to know about aiming and I explained gap shooting to him which made perfect sense to him. He went away happy.
I've never gotten a bad reaction before - in fact, most of the time they are amazed at "it" and when I ask if they'd like to try it, they usually light up like a kid at a candy store.
I'm sure I would have ended up being fired on that day because I would have made comments back to the effect that some people want to hunt deer and accept and embrace the challenges and some just want to kill deer. There is a difference. Very clear which camp he is in.
It takes more skill patience and practice to shoot traditional equipment with accuracy over compounds and crossbows, most today elect to go the easy route and replace skill with technology,thats why they shoot compound/crossbow to begin with. Its easier.
That guy was putting you down to make himself feel better,very childish. So if you ask me,who is the real"big boy"? Not him.
Just my opinion.
Gonna stick my neck out on this one:
IMHO People will use a cross-bow because they don't care to take the time to learn how to shoot! They think it is better than a trad bow or even a wheelie bow because of rated draw weight and speed...
Yes (we) have our limitations with range and accuracy, but that it what makes it "archery" for goodness sake! It's like night and day...
Funny thing was said to me years ago... I was telling a good friend how much fun it was to get in close to game... He said- "If you want to get closer, use a bigger scope!" I thought I was gonna die... :D
The same fella, just last week, walked into an archery shop with his older wheelie bow looking for a new string... Shop owner told him "Can't be found." Then sold him a $1200- Cross Bow outfit!
Follow The Money as they say in some circles...
... mike ... :archer2: ...
QuoteOriginally posted by fnshtr:
This year, for the first time, crossbows are allowed in West Virginia, during archery season. It started out for disabled hunters only.
I would have no problem allowing them during gun season or in a short special season, but do not think they should be allowed during archery season. With muzzleloading season and several different firearm "antlerless" seasons now... Real archers are losing more and more of our hunting time.
$$$$$
Sorry to rant.
I agree. They're allowed during the last couple weeks of our archery season here, and I'm afraid that now that they have their foot in the door, they'll eventually extend it to the full season.
I have nothing against Xbows, or the folks that use them, but I'm 100% against them being legal for use during archery season.
$$$$$... Absolutely!
Bob
Was he Amish? Around here they sell a ton of them to the Amish. They don't hunt, they just kill deer.
Did you sell him a light for on it?
No poacher's rig is complete without one.
And this coming from a guy who stills shoots comping occasionally.....
Lots of you are just as bad as the guy buying the crossbow. Most of your statements are baseless and unfounded. I know Bonebuster has run into crowded hunting areas but having grown up in southern MI public land was always crowded and the number clowns with weapons was always a problem. Put&Take pheasant hunts were scary. As for the rest of the guys, crossbows have zero effect on your hunting. Why care what the other guy shoots?
Anyway, the best way to combat someone who doubts your ability with your stick bow is to pull out my phone and show them all the dead deer, bear, hogs and small game I have pics of. They change their mind pretty quick.
Don't worry about what you can't change. There is a line from an old Ray Stevens song that went, "There is none so blind as he who will not see." Let him shoot his X-bow, and you shoot your trad bow. I guarantee the sun will still rise in the east in the morning.
quote:
Originally posted by mcgroundstalker:
Gonna stick my neck out on this one:
Funny thing was said to me years ago... I was telling a good friend how much fun it was to get in close to game... He said- "If you want to get closer, use a bigger scope!" I thought I was gonna die... :D
... mike ... :biglaugh: :laughing:
QuoteOriginally posted by killinstuff:
Lots of you are just as bad as the guy buying the crossbow. Most of your statements are baseless and unfounded. I know Bonebuster has run into crowded hunting areas but having grown up in southern MI public land was always crowded and the number clowns with weapons was always a problem. Put&Take pheasant hunts were scary. As for the rest of the guys, crossbows have zero effect on your hunting. Why care what the other guy shoots?
Anyway, the best way to combat someone who doubts your ability with your stick bow is to pull out my phone and show them all the dead deer, bear, hogs and small game I have pics of. They change their mind pretty quick.
I'm all for people using whatever makes them happy, but we have a group of guys where I hunt that start making drives, and chasing the deer around as soon as Xbow opens. They screw things up royally for me, and the other archers here. I don't think they have any place in an archery season, and I respectfully disagree with anybody that does.
Bob
I have a friend, a compound hunter, who was continually jabbed by a colleague that archery hunting wasn't really hunting at all. That was because the guy said hunters in his country (Africa), real hunters, used spears. I guess we all face the same biases.
Was thinking on a reply,but never had luck arguing with stupidity and ignorance.Keep making the bucks on those xbows its your job, more cash for your hunting and trad gear. If your not confident and accurate with trad gear then by all means use a weapon that you are,The magnificent beasts we hunt deserve it.
I think the main point of the original post wasn't so much the fact the guy bought a crossbow, rather the statement about how using a longbow isn't ethical. That's not something you say to other hunters.
I'm not going to comment on the crossbow, its just another tool to use and who am I to judge what someone else likes.
The comment towards trad hunters, well I've seem lots of guys at the 3d range that sure shouldn't be shooting at animals..... Sometimes I think we are a little to sensitive to what people are saying and what they mean.
"As for the rest of the guys, crossbows have zero effect on your hunting. Why care what the other guy shoots? "
NOPE, Incorrect answer. This past year's stats came out in Wisconsin and the crossbow folks came up with very nearly the same percent success rate as the gun hunters. Well above the "vertical bow guys.
That. . . affects my hunting, now and in the future.
ChuckC
I have lived my life taking on tough challenges of many varieties. I have a natural dislike for anyone that acts like big stuff because they have a big gun, a fast compound or a crossbow. I run into it every year, guys that think they have power and can push us around and be rude. I do not feel the need be politically correct. I see the gun hunters flying around sections chasing deer every year, there are many of them here that do just that, the accepted thing to do during gun season. Some are the same guys that hunt with crossbows, their first deer bow season and it is with a disabled pass to use a crossbow. Not making a generalization, I know them, the same people. Users of crossbows are not a separate race or religion, it is not racist to have a natural distaste for their choice.
"well I've seem lots of guys at the 3d range that sure shouldn't be shooting at animals...." I do not judge how someone hunts when shooting at a target event. 3d events are not a pass/fail system for judging anything, but it always seems perfectly fine to judge other trad shooters because they cannot hit long targets at a 3d event, while at the same time we have to be nice to crossbow shooters that are in it because they like short cuts to any challenges. I have seen many more gun hunters and now the new 'sore shoulder' crossbow shooters that should never be allowed to hunt. Sorry, since I am not political I have no way of knowing when I am not politically correct. However, I do know that it takes less money to bribe a local state politician than it takes to bribe a Washington politician.
As some have said the phone pics game killed with a stick always raise an eyebrow. Always.
How is that Chuck? Less targets in the woods? How many targets do you need to be successful? Guys can only kill what the law allows. Tag out and they are out of the woods and no states kill totals have had dramatic rises since crossbows came around. Fear mongering is all it is. Having never shot a crossbow or a compound I have no clue what the draw is but I see and kill a whole lot more critters than the guys I know who shoot other weapons. I only compete with myself and have no worries about the other guys.
killinstuff, you are so right, their is obviously no off position. It is not fair to the other hunters in Michigan that bow season comes earlier and is longer than the gun season. Anyone should be able to have their choice, this is a free country, and all hunt the same season. Besides, once a tag is filled, and their buddies tag, and their brothers, wife's, second cousin on the wife's side of the family, and everyone that joined in on the killin' party, then they will be out of the woods. What am I saying, I am so sorry, but really bow seasons are way too long anyway, they should much shorter and we should should share them, because sharing is good.
"I do not judge how someone hunts when shooting at a target event. 3d events are not a pass/fail system for judging anything, but it always seems perfectly fine to judge other trad shooters because they cannot hit long targets at a 3d event, while at the same time we have to be nice to crossbow shooters".
This is actually what I hate about traditional archery! Badmouthing a guy for taking any easier way, possibly because they know there limitations and want to make an ethical shot. Then making the excuses of not being able to hit a target but feel they should still hunt. Sad sad sad
Sounds like you are a great employee and you can handle a crappie customer well. I believe the crossbow will be the end of the compound bow as more of the eaiser/faster crowd find their way to them...
I have a 308 win Remington automatic with a Redfield scope, it was a gift because someone thought that I should have one. I think it is terribly unfair that I cannot use it during the Iowa gun season. The law is unfair and prejudiced against us 308ers, those shotgun hunters cannot hit the broadside of a barn past 300 yards, like I can with my 308. gerrke 145 is right, we should welcome crossbows, if they are the definitive answer to taking ethical shots. Of course, when I see a fellow and his buddies taking 500 yard lob slug gun shots at a buck across my farmer friend's field, that they do not have permission to hunt on, and then the next bow season I see them unpacking their crossbows at a public hunting area. I am suppose to automatically think that they chose to use a crossbow because they want to take ethical shots, using g145's logic. Many of the most considerate and ethical compound hunters that I have met, did not jump at the chance to hunt with crossbows, they became traditional bowhunters.
A long time friend of mine (50 years) and bow hunter has a bad heart so he went to the crossbow. He told me that shooting deer with that thing at 50 yards is like shooting fish in a barrel.. He said all you do is put the scope on the deer, take the safety off and pull the trigger. His words not mine.
Now how can you call that "bow" hunting.
This is a verbal battle that will go on until the next best thing comes along. I just wonder what that is going to be. Someone did tell me there were arrows on the market for $450.00 a dozen???
Pavan, I agree with u, slob hunters suck. I'm more of a big picture guy I guess. And trust me I'm not pro Xbow, it takes me long enough to get a good tag here as it is!
Introduction of crossbows into the dwindling archery season DOES affect our bow hunting. Check out Ohios drastic drop in deer population. Certainly there are other factors also, but a 50% drop in population in the last 10 years is NOT a good thing for bow hunters.
I am not against anyone using the weapon of their choice, but WV has a separate season for MLs and center fire rifles. Should be the same for cross guns and bows. Our archery season continues to shrink and will shrink even more with the most recent introduction of crossbows into our archery season.
Deer are not managed for hunters anymore, but rather for the $$$$. We have a strong insurance lobby that would like to eliminate the deer population.
We are all entitled to come to our own conclusions.
I'll not debate the issue further.
Have a great day and good luck hunting!
One can always say that it is the hunter and not the weapon that is whether they are ethical or not ethical. However, in many places hunter over crowding is real issue, it takes all of the adventure out of the hunt. On our public hunting lands and many of the private tracks there is intense competition for hunting space and locations. Some of the people that gravitate to the easy way in my neighborhood are not ethically fit enough to call themselves hunters, harsh perhaps, but it is the truth. I have too many examples to list them all here, but I will give one. A man that I have known all my life, went to crossbows the first time his shoulder felt stiff and he could get the permit, put up fake illegal tree stands at the base of a ravine that he was hunting. Nice bright new wood with what looked like they could be just leverage stands if they were made out of metal. He even strapped on 2x4 steps to access them in a solid but barely legal method. It all looked ingenious, two bright and shiny wood stands right there for anyone to use. The problem was they were designed to fall and he was proud of them when I caught him putting them up, he put them up to keep other hunters out of 'his' ravine. As a friend, he warned me to not use them. The reason for this, is there were two Pope and Young bucks running that area, and even though he had 500 acres of private land all to himself, he wanted those bucks. I climbed up one the next day and put some weight on it, it crashed to the ground. I kicked the other out as well and carried the wood to junk pile of a neighboring farm. We have a one either sex tag in Iowa, and later both of those bucks were shot in consecutive days by a longbow and recurve shooter, he covered the area with legal tree stands, mostly so no one else had a good place to hang their own tree stand. One 60 acre piece of Iowa and two slob hunters, one with a crossbow and the other with a longbow.
Correction....its a crossgun! It's also not archery equipment.
Ron
They should never be called archery equipment. Oklahoma legalized them in 2009. The bowhunters of Oklahoma were not consulted. I thought it would be awful but really didn't notice a difference for the first couple years.
I am noticing it more recently as crossbows have become more popular among previous gun hunters and they are learning to use them and hunt with them.
This last year I saw a bunch of them hunting public land and every gun hunting friend I can think of has gotten a deer with one. They will have an effect wether we like it or not. They are purely more effective and incredibly easy to use effectively with very little practice.
I recently picked up an Oklahoma outdoor publication and outlined all the best crossbows to advertise them to new hunters. All of the crossbows highlighted shot over 370fps!! One of them over 400fps!!!
BTW...someone mentioned the historical war between armies armed with longbows vs crossbows. It is interesting to note the while the longbow was more effective than the crossbow in the hands of skilled archers, the crossbows effectiveness was found with its ease of use...anyone could pick it up.
Historically as the wars progressed the longbow lost out due to the lack of trained longbow archers and was replaced in the English army by the crossbow because any joe blow peasant could shoot it well.
That really is the issue of the crossbow...it shoots just like a gun and will ever be more popular and easier to learn to use thus attracting more hunters while at the same time making each of them more effective wih legal equipment.
Wow, you reacted better than I would have.
To suggest that using trad bows is unethical just burns me up.
Well, now I"m irritated.
Killin. There is no doe season in much of Wisconsin this year and in the UP MI. Too few deer. The herd was not always this large and it will be small again. Kill too many deer and they shorten or close the season. Make any sense yet ?
We have a long season because we don't kill all that many deer. If that changes, so will our season.
ChuckC
ChuckC -
Agreed. Been saying this for years now but nobody cares until it happens. Instead were all hunters and should unite. When your weapon potentially has a negative impact on the archery season this is where the unite thing ends....no sugar coating it.
Ron
Micheal Armette ht it on the head!
I don't believe x bows should be allowed,during archery season. The reason we archers have a nice long season is archery is or was a lot harder to master than a rifle. A crossbow is not hard to master. I see gun hunters wanting to hunt during the archery season but don't want to do the work of learning and spending time to learn. In all actuality they could,pick up a modern compound and learn pretty dang fast. But even that is to much why shoot a compound when they can pick up a crossbow and go hunting.
It's equivalent to golf making the holes bigger so more people can be successful and thus attracting more people to the sport so someone can make more money!
Anyone of us could pick up an Xbow and increase or sucess rate but we don't we do what we do because it is a skill to learn and learn. And when we have success its,so much sweeter. Bowhunting is about how close not how far........sorry for babbling I'm gonna go wash my truck.
As a fellow Pa. bowhunter have to agree with what Ron just said, also had this comment made to me by a neighbor few seasons ago, I was practicing with one of my recurves and he sorta snickered and said my x-bow is all sighted in and I don't have to waste time practicing, at first I was kinda ticked but have learned through the years people like that aren't worth me getting worked up over and later actually felt a little sad for him cause he didn't understand just how much fun I was having and how much I love shooting a stickbow, better yet how much more most trad. guys/gals know about woodcraft and deer cause we do gotta get close and that's the thrill and mystic of it for me.
Northern Lights - Most I know who shoot a crossgun don't care about having fun....its all about increased opportunity, instantaneous success and less work. Mainly a short cut into the archery season.
BTW go ask any of them if there was a chance the archery season would be shortened because the crossgun harvest exceeded biologists expectations would they stop using the crossgun....you will hear silence. They just don't care about the archery season or the impact. Might sound harsh but its the truth. I have debated this with many crossgun hunters and the results all came back the same.
Ron
You handled it much nicer than I would have.
The bottom line is that I don't really care what a guy hunts with as long as he does so legally. That said, due to the advanced technology and mechanical precision involved, I don't think X-bows or modern in-line black powder rifles should qualify as "primitive" weapons - my opinion only, not an opening for more debate. I think Maddog was correct when he observed that the original issue in this thread was the condescending jab at the ethicalness of a longbow.
QuoteOriginally posted by centaur:
A title of a Wensel book comes to mind..."And the Horse You Rode In On"
Yep!
There are always people quick to criticize other people's choices in equipment, no matter what they may shoot.
Sorry you had to deal with one who was a customer.
I don't agree with crossbows being included into archery seasons but I more disagree with unethical hunters in the woods with any equipment.
I think crossbows are cool in their own right. I do think they should have their own season though. Some crossbow guys may just be using one because they are just not fully confident with their tradgear yet and want to make ethical kills. No reason for people to bash each other in either case. Sounds like the OPs guy was just a turd.
It's akin to legalizing live bait in a trout area that used to be fly fishing only...the results are a reduction of the quality of the experience for everyone
This really turned into an anti-crossgun thread. I think naturally the traditional archer has a chip on their shoulder toward the crossgun guys. It takes little to no practice and it has drawn in a lot of lazy/ poor quality hunters we would all just as soon not see in the woods during our season.
To the OP: You handled that with a grace most of us could not. Be proud of the work you put in and your love for hunting in a purer form. That is what traditional archery has come to symbolize for me. A lifestyle and an ethos.
I don't think anyone is bashing anyone in particular, rather this is a discussion on hunting ethics and the theory of limited effectiveness for greater experience... It's the foundation that our archery seasons were originally founded on
Yep, the compounds their new trad bow! Had a guy tell me last night that his arrows are $35 a throw.But he hopes he fills his crossbow tags opening wk. end. Ill just keep hunting and shooting. My longbow gets sweeter every day even after 32 years.
QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Mecredy:
Did you ask him what kind of bow his husband shots?
LOL, I just spit water all over my office.
The guys that talk smack about Traditional bows are either a keyboard hunter or never truly hunted with a trad bow. In 2009 I sold all my compound bows that same year I drew a California Antelope tag I was told that I crazy and that I wouldn't kill a antelope so I killed my antelope on day two he scored 73 P&Y points with a 45# Bob Lee Recurve bow.
QuoteOriginally posted by Gen273:
QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Mecredy:
Did you ask him what kind of bow his husband shots?
LOL, I just spit water all over my office. [/b]
I had the same reaction. I'm gonna remember that for future use. :bigsmyl:
Bob
Well, you met one hunter you wouldn't share hunting camp w/.
I met a woman that killed lots of deer with a 35lb bow.
None of them suffered:)
Sadly there are people like this in any retail situation. I just say ignore the rude, idiotas and follow your heart. Interestingly, crossbows were used as weapons to kill men not deer or elk. Give the customer what he/she wants and move on ignoring the rest of their negativity and you will still be you and probably an even better version of yourself.
Who knows what this guy saw to form his opinion on trad bows? I've seen plenty of trad shooters at 3-d shoots that have no business going hunting with what they're shooting. They're either horrible shots or their bow is so far out of tune the arrow looks like a wounded duck flying to the target or both. I don't by the bs about " once I get a deer in front of me I really concentrate on the shot" You can either shoot good or not. Just because you choose to hunt with a trad bow, doesn't mean you should. And it also doesn't automatically make you a better,more dedicated hunter. I laugh when I hear the guys bashing the "wheelie bow" shooters. "They don't have the same respect of the animals as US,they only shoot 2 days before the season, they take shots that are too far,etc" I'm sure the same can be said for some trad hunters. I have friends that hunt with compounds and are as ethical as you can get, great woodsmen and shoot year round because they love it. One of them got a longbow because of hunting with me. He did great shooting it and took a couple deer. He went back to the compound because he felt he didn't have enough time to practice that year with the longbow to be confident of making good shots. Got way more respect from me for that decision than if he kept at it with the longbow just to be trad
Unfortunatly some people think it is okay to treat those in retail however they feel like and nothing will be said because the person doesnt want to get fired, and this is usually true.
I work for myself selling archery,leather and custom arrows and rarly I get a disresectful customer but when I do I let it be known that sort of behavior will not be tolerated as professional as I can,and they always drop the attitude after that.But I dont have to worry about firing myself.
If a customer is a upset because I made a mistake that is totally different,and I kill them with kindness and make up for it however I can though.Everyone should treat others as they wish to be treated.
That teminds me of when I worked at s jumbo sports and we had a bunch of guys always asking for a "light gathering scope" did know what the heck they were talking about didn't seem to know the name of any scope company. We had a joke that we were going to start a scope company called "a light gathering scope" maybe have a couple of models like "the night hunter" or maybe "the poacher delight"
QuoteOriginally posted by Veneficus:
Unfortunatly some people think it is okay to treat those in retail however they feel like and nothing will be said because the person doesnt want to get fired, and this is usually true.
I work for myself selling archery,leather and custom arrows and rarly I get a disresectful customer but when I do I let it be known that sort of behavior will not be tolerated as professional as I can,and they always drop the attitude after that.But I dont have to worry about firing myself.
If a customer is a upset because I made a mistake that is totally different,and I kill them with kindness and make up for it however I can though.Everyone should treat others as they wish to be treated.
I was in line at our local convenience store one time and the guy in front of me, I won't call him a gentleman, received TOO MUCH change back from the young girl that was working behind the cash the register. He called her some very rude names, and told her if she was that stupid, she shouldn't be working there. He wouldn't let it go, and she started to cry. I'm pretty easy going, but I can't stand to see somebody getting crapped on that doesn't deserve it, and I went up one side of him, and down the other. He hurried out the door, and the poor girl came out from behind the counter and gave me a big hug, and a kiss on the cheek. The manager told me I should have minded my own business, and that the customer is always right. I agree up to a point, but nobody should have to take that kind of abuse at their workplace.
Bob
Hey Bob., good on you. You should have told the manager you were a customer and you were absolutely right to handle the situation the way you did.
QuoteOriginally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:
Hey Bob., good on you. You should have told the manager you were a customer and you were absolutely right to handle the situation the way you did.
I wish I'd thought to tell him that Charlie. :thumbsup:
Bob
Whitetail Addict, you have reminded the store manager that you were a customer also and if that was his attitude then maybe you should shop some where else.
Many years ago I was at the public range shooting at a 3D deer target. A guy came up next to me and started shooting his brand new compound, I recognized the brand and complimented him on his new compound boy just being nice. He proceed to ask me if I was going to hunt with my recurve, I said yes and he said will kill a deer, I informed with a properly placed arrow you bet,
Here is where it got interesting he said lets see how fast it is compared to mine I said ok so as he started to draw, I drew anchored and delivered a perfect shot he proceeded to complete his shot and said now what does that prove. I said in the deer woods that would be my deer. I said it is not the speed of the bow it is the speed and accuracy of the archer. He got the point.
QuoteOriginally posted by ChetterB:
Many years ago I was at the public range shooting at a 3D deer target. A guy came up next to me and started shooting his brand new compound, I recognized the brand and complimented him on his new compound boy just being nice. He proceed to ask me if I was going to hunt with my recurve, I said yes and he said will kill a deer, I informed with a properly placed arrow you bet,
Here is where it got interesting he said lets see how fast it is compared to mine I said ok so as he started to draw, I drew anchored and delivered a perfect shot he proceeded to complete his shot and said now what does that prove. I said in the deer woods that would be my deer. I said it is not the speed of the bow it is the speed and accuracy of the archer. He got the point.
I love that :thumbsup: