Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Roy from Pa on December 08, 2006, 07:00:00 PM
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I've been spending around $28.00 per dozen for Sitka spruce shafts the past year or two. I always wanted to try and make my own shafts so last night I gave it a go. I made up a jig 36 inches long. I attached two wood strips 1/4 high and 3/8th wide on the center of a 3 inch board. I spaced them 5/16th apart and perfectly straight. Then I laid a piece of 1/2 square stock into the crotch between the two long strips and clamped my jig to my work bench. That held my stock while I planed off the four edges of the stock. Then I planed the next eight edges left from the first pass with the hand plane. Then when I had it roughed down to about 11/32, I switched to 100 grit sand paper, then to 220 grit. I must say this arrow shaft came out looking better than any raw shaft I've ever bought. I shoot 5/16th shafts, that is why I spaced the strips 5/16th apart. After the arrow sanding was done, I laid it into the crotch between the strips and it laid in there perfect. This jig could also be used as an arrow straightness indicator as I later seen.
I bought Sitka Spruce boards from a guy on the internet. It is also used for the inside of airplanes and musical instruments.. I'm going to try Douglas fir and white pine boards to see how they work.. Anyone else out there make your own arrows?
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Hey Roy, I have been wanting to try that. But I don't understand what held the stock in the jig while you planed off the edges. I know it is held side to side, but what holds it lengthwise?
TR
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What do the shafts spine after finished?...Van
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I did Roy - for the last two yrs I was in Thailand. I only arrived back in Australia a couple of months ago. I couldn't import arrows into Thailand, there are no archery shops - so I had to get creative.
However one thing they do have is loads and loads of cheap timber. I spent half a day at the timber mill (along with my not so good Thai language) and worked out that a local timber they call Mysuk (spelling??), was absolutely perfect.
Fortunately I had taken a small block plane with me and my skills as an Industrial Tech teacher stood me in good stead. All I did was make a jig that held the 10mmX10mm squares of timber steady, whilst I planed them lengthwise.
I took the corners off, until I had eight sides, then 16 sides etc. Then I would put pencil marks around the circumference of the shaft -(about 150mm apart). Then all one has to do is take a swipe with the plane along the length of the shaft, turning it ever so slightly each time, until the pencil lines are gone. Then just repeat as before. It is amazing how perfectly round the shaft stays.
Once it is near the required diameter, then one holds the garnit paper in one hand, rubbing the shaft thru with the other - like as if you would be polishing a steel rod with a soft cloth. Work down with finer and finer paper until the required finish has been reached.
For adjusting the spine I just suspended the shaft near each end and hung a weight in the center. Prior to this - I repeated the same proceedure with one aluminium arrow I had that I knew was the correct spine. I marked the amount of 'sag' in the center of the arrow and just matched that with the wooden shaft. The last few adjustments can be done with a few more swipes of garnetpaper.
I had two bows whilst in Thailand - my Martin Vision and Savannah. The arrows flew perfectly from both bows, even though there was a difference of six pounds between them.
This was a wonderful experience and quiet a spiritual time for me. Just backpacking around Asia, making my own wooden shafts and shooting my bows up in the mountains with the local hunters. My wooden shafts flew as well and hit as hard as any Port Orfords that I have ever shot.
The locals really appreciated it - seeing the crazy 'Farang' looking like something out of a Rambo movie - it caused quite a stir wherever I went.
Unfortunately, now that I am back to the rat-race of Sydney and the stress of daily living - I just shoot alloys, cause I don't have the time or inclination to make my beautiful wooden shafts again. I fully recommend it - if you have the time and inclination - you will be greatly rewarded.
Sutto
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Roypa,
I saw the title and was sure Ron talked you into carbons! ROFLMAO!
You got any other hidden talents you're not sharing with us?
See you at SS in Jan!
Dave
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Did you shoot them yet?
What did they spine at ?
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Now if you boys would pay attention here, I said that last night I made my "first" arrow shaft from a piece of square stock. I have to say again, it looks better than any shaft I've ever bought from any Trad dealer. Not saying Trad dealers are bad, just saying my first arrow looks real sweet to me.
TR, I see I did omit that part. For now, being it is my first attempt, I just held the square stock down with my hand. I discovered that letting the stock extend out over the end of my jig about 6 inches, I could just hold onto the end of it and turn it when I wanted to.
Van, I did not spine the shaft yet. Arrow spine will vary from wood to wood, but being 5/16th, it will be in my ball park, and I'll correct each shaft to what I need by bare shaft testing them one at a time and sanding them more if needed. If they pass that test, then they become Roy's arrow.
Sutto, you and I would get along quite nicely.. Thanks for your info Bro..
LOL Red.. Trust me here, I will never shoot a carbon arrow from my selfbows I make, NEVER! I just got some cane from a friend in Georgia, I intend to make that into arrows also:) Yup I'll see you at SS. How ya want yer eggs cooked?
Joe, have not spined it or shot it yet. Intend to make up six of them first, then onto the testing range:)
I loved making my first own arrow and can't wait to make more.. I'll take and post some pictures ifin ya all would like to see how I did this..
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Yes,I would like to see your process.
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Here is the jig I made up. I took a pine 4 x 3/4 board. Cut off two pieces from the sides and plained them down to 1/4 inch thick by 3/8th wide, then used wood glue to mount them onto the center of the remaning board after I used a 3 foot metal straight edge to mark my line out. I left that clamped up overnight. I spaced them 5/16th apart so my final shaft diameter would fit right down snug inside my little strips. My first arrow is that bugger just to the right of my jig..
(http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/aarrows001.jpg)
Then I laid the 1/2 square stock in the center, held it with my hand, and plained down the four edges, then the eight edges, and pretty soon that square stock was getting round.
(http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/aarrows004.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/aarrows005.jpg)
As I said above, I found it was easier to let my square stock extend out towards me by 6 inches to hold it steady. Then I could rotate it when I needed to. This was really nice as I got closer to my desired arrow and the eight sides were plained, then I just kept rolling the shaft over as I eye balled it up and plained.. Here is the final shaft laying along side my jig..
(http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/aarrows002.jpg)
Here it is laying inside my 5/16th space.
(http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/aarrows003.jpg)
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yep, it works pretty good don't it? :thumbsup: I make shafts that way when I'm not using shoots or bamboo, only I use a 1" plane. Poplar or aspen works great that way too, easy to find straight grain boards and rip em down into 3/8" squares on the table saw.
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Nice job Roy. You got talent boy.
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Roy, if you nail a piece of wood to the far end of the jig, blocking the channel that the shaft goes in, you can rest the end of the shaft against it while planing so it won't slide out the other end. Or you could nail in a finishing nail right in the center of the channel at the far end level with the parallels to do the same thing.
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Nice! Sure they will become Roy's arrows.thanks for the pictures. God do I wish I could do that!
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Very neat - sounds like you are enjoying it too. Bet they'll be pretty when finished and ready to shoot.
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Hey Roy - Great minds think alike - that is exactly what my jig in Thailand looked like. As already mentioned, I just nailed a small stop on the end (a bit lower so the plane did not hit it), and that stopped the shaft sliding out.
As I became more adept at what I was doing, I was able to barrel my shafts. It made it easier taking the final adjustment of material from the centre of the shaft for final spine adjustment (meaning it did not end up thinner in the center than the rest of the shaft).
I would then hold the nails of my thumb and middle finger together and spin the arrow over that - with a flick of the other hand. If there was any 'chatter', it would need a trip to the steamer for a bit of a straighten.
People underestimate this process - however, when I got it 'sorted', never had a straighter or more correctly spined shaft been presented for action - on God's planet.
Sutto
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Thanks for the good info! Those pics sure cleared up any questions I had. Now I have a new project to look forward to!
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Hey Roy - what is your secret for finding the time to do this? Either you are retired, or so rich that you don't have to work - I hope it is the latter - LOL!!
Sutto
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Nice job Roy. Don't know if it was mentioned or not but a "V" groove will work better for holding a blank. I use that side just to knock off the four corners and then switch to the "U" grove to finish the remaining corners with a scraper. ART B
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/artcher1/arrows017.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/artcher1/arrows016.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/artcher1/arrows060.jpg)
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Thanks Art, arrows look sweet. I know I need a stop on the end, just couldn't wait to make an arrow first that's all:) Gonna glue in a hunk of wood there. The V groove would work better I suppose, and I could make another jig for the early plaining, what I like about the way I did mine is it's 5/16th spacing and when done my arrows lay snug inside the slot and can be checked for straightness that way.. I'm not retired or rich, just good looking Sutto:) I work on things after work and on days off..
I'm gonna try an arrow out of Osage Orange, that outta be a looker...
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Love those osage arrows Roy! But they can be a real pain rounding out though. My block plane doesn't work to well on this type of wood so I use a rough file or rasp to first knock off those four corners. Very well seasoned and straight grained osage is helpfull in getting these shafts to stay straight. As you know, osage is a different animal for bows, more so for arrows. Oh, for wood (like poplar and others) that's hard to see the corners as you plane/file off it helps to lightly scorch (I use a propane torch for this) your blanks as you straighten them. Works very well for me.-ART B
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Did I Miss what the SPINE of these Fine Shafts ended up Being? I know the Ramin I use are anywhere from 35 to 45, so I just use em for Target and Plinkin' around. They make Excellent Stumpin' Arrows too!
I betcha I end up doing this before the Winter is Over. It'll keep Cabin-Fever at Bay!! :thumbsup:
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The arrow spined at 42 pounds. That will work for my 46 pound bow, might even have to sand a little more off.
Art are those osage arrows on the lower side of the bottom bundle?
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Yeah Roy, that's an osage shaft along with some poplar shafts that were roughed out. Think I already made arrows from those. Hard to keep up with my son and brothers when it come to making their arrows.....they miss a lot you know. Oh, they don't break many of those poplars cause they're tough.....they simply lose them cause they don't practice.-ART B :banghead:
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So who did you steal that idea from?
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Western red cedar makes a good shaft, Roy.
You can get it at just about any lumber yard. I made most of mine the way you've described and they work and fly well even if you never sand out the high points that remain after it is taken down to 16 sides. Even 8 sided they fly great, you have to sand down the end where the feathers go a little so they'll lay right.
Also with the west. red cedar you won't get a hunting weight arrow out of a 5/16" shaft. You'll need to experiment a bit.
It is mighty cool to make yer own!
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Well Mr. Hildenbrand, I first seen it from a guy from the NE, George:)
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Thanks Minuteman, I might have to go to 11/32 shafts or another type wood.. It sure is cool though making your own arrows. I'm really geared up to make some osage arrows, maybe tomorrow. I'm sure they will be stiff enough at 5/16th..
Art is popular really that tuff? I always thought popular was a soft wood.. Or is it more flexible so to say? WV huh? We are almost neighbors Art..
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Its fun making your own arrows! :bigsmyl:
I usually hate choking on the sawdust though lol
i have basic equipment lol VERY basic
You will enjoy not spending so much on arrows
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Art, I just re read your posts and seen ya use a scraper.. That's a great idea when ya get down to those 8 sides, thanks.. I take back all the bad things I ever said about them WV Hill Billys:)
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Pretty tough stuff Roy. Reckon you could call poplar soft hardwood....if there is such a thing. But once it seasons up it'll make probably some the best shooting arrows you've ever seen. Medium weight which is great for target shooting or hunting. I've tried most of our local woods for hand-made planed arrows and this is the wood I've settled on. Trick to any arrow wood is to get far enough ahead on your wood/shafts that you wind up with well seasoned shafts for your arrows. I buy my poplar boards at Lowe's and as you know they have a quick turn-over on their lumber and usually the boards I buy are anything but seasoned. May take me six to twelve months before I can finish out my arrows.-ART B
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I make a barrel chested shaft that way which allows me to better control spine and weight. I love to use poplar and pine shafts. There's more on my site. See Pine Shaft Hints. Jawge
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Well that was my next question Art, thanks.. I suppose arrow wood moisture content is the same as bow wood? I will not touch a piece of bow wood till it is down to 6% moisture. Do you cut your square stock out then dry it or do you dry the whole board first? I have a neat drying box so I could get the boards in that.. This stika spruce has been in that box for 2 years.. I started making arrows and it wasn't going well so I just left the boards in the drying box all that time.. (http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/abcbow010.jpg)
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Well it's about time ya showed up George:) I got the idea from reading your info on your site.. The barrel chested idea is a good one too, guess we could call it a tapered arrow huh? When I tune arrows, I sand the middle half of the shafts anyway. I think I will start marking off the middle half with a pencil and leave that area a tad thicker from now on. Thanks, Roy
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Dried wood and seasoned wood are not the same thing Roy. Easy to dry wood out quickly so that's not a big factor here. Wood has got to be seasoned enough so that their fibers can be heated and reset for the shaft to stay straight. Now you heat and try to straighten a dried but relatively green shaft and the next day it'll be crooked. If you heat straighten a shaft one day and it's still straight the next then it's seasoned.
Cutting your blanks out early on will give you a good idea of what you'll be working with. Straighter they stay the better. Good idea is to buy your board long so you can take the scrap end and test for straightness of grain. A good whack with a hatchet of large knife should do it.-ART B
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Well Art, we need to get into this further now ole boy:) Dried and seasoned are not the same ya say. Ok, what is the difference? Are you saying seasoned wood is dry wood that has dried even more?
When I first got those stika spruce boards two years ago, they were 1/2 thick by six inches wide. The rest of those boards are the ones in the upper right hand corner in the drying box picture above a couple of posts. Perfect I thought and it seemed very dry to me, checked out at 6% on the moisture meter. So I proceed to cut out 1/2 width from a 6 inch board. I just layed them on the table saw as I kept cutting up the rest of the board. When I was done with the remaining cuts and I looked at the 1/2 x 1/2 stock I just cut out, everyone of them buggers were bowed beyond belief. I laid a straight edge along them and at the middle I had 1 full inch of space, damn I thought why did that happen.. So I contacted the guy who sold them to me and he said that when I cut the 1/2 sections off, I exposed the wood inside to the outside air and it was still green enough that they bowed.. Made sence to me.
So I suppose I should buy a board at the lumber yard, cut out my 1/2 stock and see what happens. If some bow, then I could heat them and straighten them, and check them every couple days and reheat and straighten if need.
That sound like a plan Art? Thanks for all your info, Roy
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Roy,
Nice job for a old guy.
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been makin arrows like that for 30 years
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Man, you guys are nowhere near as lazy as I am. Here's a picture of the way I do it. Square stock is rotated by an electric drill as it passes through the bushing at bottom of photo and past the rotating router bit seen in the gap in the right edge of the wood block the busshin is in. There is a diagram online somewhere that shows better how it all works, but I can't find it right now. Arrows come out perfectly round and to size. I have made many dozens of them now. I can run a square to finished round in less than a minute.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d72/Reparrow/DWLOVER.jpg
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(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d72/Reparrow/DWLOVER.jpg)
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Infeed steel bushing is of a size to barely crush the corners of a 3/8 square wood shaft. Outfeed hole in first block is a snug fit on the finished diameter shaft. Far outboard support block's hole is a loose fit on the finished shaft.
Square hole of 3/8 drive socket fits over the wood shaft and socket end fits over the head of a bolt that is chucked an electric drill.
Run the stock through till the socket gets to the bushing. Take bolt out of drill and socket off the wood. Put drill on finished end of arrow shaft and continue pulling shaft through the router jig.
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(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d72/Reparrow/DOWELJIG.jpg)
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No expert here on wood Roy but believe me there is a difference. When I first started hand making my own arrows I had a terrible time trying to group a lot of them. Ones that wouldn't perform I put in my arrow rack and just forgot about them for several years. Those turned out to be some of my best shooting arrow to date. I think the term "dry wood" is kind of misleading here. Perhaps "fresh wood" would be a more appropriate term since any wood we're be using for arrow shafts will have to be dry. I believe in fresh wood the fibers are still soft and will continue to draw/shrink and in seasoned wood the fibers have firmed up and all shrinkage has ended. Maybe someone with more experience in wood structure will come along and explain it better.
Here's another thing that will save you a lot of time. Make one shaft from your board at the spine you want (all the others will spine out similar in spine) and then cut your other blanks very close to these dimensions. Have all your saw marks planed/sanded out before you start on the corners. Be surprised how little sanding is left once you finish with the scraper.
Heart of the tree centered....blanks stay straight, heart of the tree a little off center....blanks are a little crooked, heart the tree a lot off center.....blanks crooked a lot. Love those old timers Roy!-ART B
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Ok Thanks Art. I picked up a nice popular board today, gonna start maken arrows real soon.. Osage too... I love that yellow dust:)
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Lee Valley Versita doweling tool and a bench sander. Turn them a little over size, then sand them to finished dia. Using the bench(disc) sander and a drill.
If you practice a little you can even taper the shaft using the bench grinder. All takes about 2 minutes from square blank to finished shaft. Spine and sort.
Another way I used to use was to plan the blacks down to close to the desired dia. Chuck it in a drill and push through different dia holes drilled in a peice of plate steel. Sand while still in drill.
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I was reading a Trad book a while back about making arrows and this guy put 3 grooves length wise end to end equaly spaced down the shaft. Supposed to help keep the shaft straight and I guess years ago some tribe did this. Anyone know anything about this?
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Pointy Sticks, yeah, some type of jig as you and Jim mentioned is probably the best way to go but for my personal satisfaction I prefer to hand plane 'em. Very relaxing as Jawge would say!
Roy, if'n you real careful you can get two shafts out of your first cut (using band saw). Just spit it right down the center (edge) on your first blank (say 23/64 X 3/4) . Poplar will general produce 45-50# at or a littler under 11/32". If you want higher spines just look for the heavier/denser boards. Take care-ART B
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I have the Veritas dowel making jig, set it up real nice too. But I had a heck of a time getting good arrow shafts out of it. Prolly because most of my square stocks were bowed. I could run an arrow shaft thru it in about 30 seconds. I might give it another try someday but it's really cool doing shafts with hand tools. (http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/IMG_0455.JPG)
(http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/IMG_0456.JPG)
(http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/IMG_0457.JPG)
(http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/IMG_0459.JPG)
Those last 2 pictures showing the drill and square stock looking like the drill end is low are because when I ran a piece thru the jig, I would hold my left hand under the drill and rest my hand on the bottom board. That aligned the stock nice and level.
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Roy, the plains indians used to do the grooving to shoot arrows prior o heat straightening them. They are supposed to stay straight longer. I never do it and I wouldn't do it to hand planed shafts. Jawge
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Ok thanks George..
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I think Jim Hamm mentioned the grooves in one of the TBB books.
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I have heard of the groves in the shafts. I was told it was called "FLUTING" and was to help blood escape around the shaft in the event of an arrow NOT passing through the animal. Better blood trail, don't know if it's fact or not, only what I have been told.
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Ya that's the guy Jim Hamm, thanks. Pointy your suggestion makes sense..
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It does work pretty good at keeping a green shoot arrow straight as Jim Hamm mentioned in one of his books. But this procedure may have been the bi-product of something else. Before I ever heard of lighting or blood grooves I was looking for a way to reduce the spine (and the stiff side) of shoots but still maintain good physical weight. Grooving a green shoot shaft is a good way to do this. But on this subject maybe everybody is a little right.-ART B
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Roy, the doweling jig I have isn't like that one, its sold by Lee Valley? I think. Much simpler set up and way less expensive too as I recall.
Yeah, you gotta get the edge of the board running perpendicular to the grain in the board if you want the ripped stock ( and yer arrows) to come out of the jig close to straight.
The straighter the ripped blanks the straighter yer arrows will be.
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I got that one at Lee Valley.. About $150.00. It works slick but my stock was not the straightest.. Maybe I should have went for thicker shafts then sanded by hand also.
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Here are my first 6 arrows, 11/32nd sitka spruce. Fly absolutely fantastic.
(http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/arrahs001.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/arrahs002.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/roy2953/arrahs003.jpg)
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Roy,
If you are still watching this thread. When you are planing the shafts, are you keeping them at 8 sides until you get close to finished product? Or are you making them 4,8,16,ect.... How many passes on each corner are you making?