I would like to hear from those of you who have actually killed elk with trad gear. Here are the 3 broad heads that are flying where I look on my Sitka Spruce arrows
3 Blade Snuffer, total arrow weight 470g
2 blade Simmons 480g
2 blade Magnus 446g
I'm shooting my Palmer Longbow, its 47#@ my draw of 26"
Which arrow would you the experienced elk killer recommend?
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f205/BasinHunter/Mobile%20Uploads/610109BA-D118-46D9-9B9C-6DA892C879A4.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/BasinHunter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/610109BA-D118-46D9-9B9C-6DA892C879A4.jpg.html)
In my limited experience I'm leaning towards the heavier arrow with the 2 blade Simmons to get good penetration....
I don't have any experience with elk.. but i agree with your thinking.
I'd probably go with the 2-blade Simmons because it's the smallest blade and the heaviest arrow.
Though you can kill an elk with that set up, I think it's on the light side. I shoot 6-10# more in a high performance bow (Wish I could shoot more.) and arrows in the 600 plus grain range. And, yes, I have killed a few elk.
Can't say that I've ever zipped an arrow clean through an elk, but usually manage to get the broad head out the far side shooting mid-50s high performance bows, 600 plus grain arrows and 2-blade broad heads.
Get close and be selective and you should be able to get the job done. Good luck.
I'm useing the Simmons this year myself...
,,,Sam,,,
Wow-eee.
Of the three, I agree 100% with Orion. I know it can be done, but I've never witnessed an elk kill with anything close to that setup, as it's not legal here in wyoming.
good luck and please do report!
If hunting WY that simmons looks like a barbed head which maybe elkbreath was eluding to, its illegal in WY. May want to get a G&F ruling on that head if hunting WY, not sure of any of the other elk states.
My regular set up is a 600-650 gn Cedar or Doug Fir arrow with a single bevel 2 blade and my 50# bow. You need at least enough power to get through both lungs. I would definitely use a 2 blade with that weight set up. Bring your camera.
Sorry, to be clear, if in wyoming, the bow has to be 50# plus, legally.
However, i've used Simmons heads for years, and they are deemed legal
Well, I know Corey Bailey and all he needs to know is which arrow WOULD y'all use. It sounds like it would be the Simmons.
I'm predicting the following:
1) He will have a dead elk in three days
2) He will shoot it inside 20 yards; and
3) It will travel less than 70 yards
The pressure is on Corey! :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
From the pics I've seen, I'd say you are a great shot...and that's what counts. Good luck!
However, in all honesty Jack, I could see how the could be considered Barbed.
I've had my equipment looked over in past, using tree sharks, to no negative comment other than the token "what a broadhead" comment.
I'd try to up your arrow weight a bit. Maybe try some doug fir shafts. Elk are heavy critters
I have been shooting a GoldTip 3555 with 100gr brass insert and a Magnus Stinger 150gr 2 blade head for a total arrow weight of 520gr. I'm accurate with it out to 40 yards. Though I'd really like to kill an elk with a wood arrow, I would hate to see my wood arrow hit an elk and only penetrate a couple inches and be dangling out its side as it ran off....
Dang, and here I am fretting about my setup 61@29" and 600 grain carbons. That's 600gr @ 180 fps and 44 foot pounds. Regardless, from the shot pics I've seen of yours it looks like your arrow should be true! Good luck
600 grains at 180 fps, WOW!!!!
Now that will PENETRATE!!!
same here michael, mine weigh 750-850 out of a 77 lb bow and I fret over every bit of it.
That's why it does my heart good when I see these seriously lighter bows come away victorious!
So, Corey, wherever your hunting, please report your success!
If I were going to pick one of the 3 I'd probably pick the Simmons.
If you're concerned about the penetration and think you'd be more confident in a narrower profile head I have some Stos 160 gr glue ons I can send you. They should put you at the same weight and have a narrower profile that should yield a little better penetration. I believe I have 6 of them, if your interested PM your address and they're all yours.
I'm sure the Simmons will get it done but confidence is the name of the game.
D. none of the above.
The gold tip sounds the best, not because its carbon, but because its heavier and has a BH better suited for deep penetration.
Its a long ways thru an Elk Buddy!
When I saw on the video that the 100# sow didn't get an exit hole at 5 yards with that set up, I would be frightened to shoot a mature bull elk with it!
I wish you the best for your elk hunt, and really waiting for the elk story.
I like the Gold Tip set up better for a number of reasons. One, it's a bit heavier; two, it's skinnier than the woody; and 3, more of the weight is up front. All of those things increase penetration.
TallTines my friend! Just chronod it last week: 176-180 so 178 average.
100% agree w/ Orion.
QuoteOriginally posted by hybridbow hunter:
When I saw on the video that the 100# sow didn't get an exit hole at 5 yards with that set up, I would be frightened to shoot a mature bull elk with it!
I wish you the best for your elk hunt, and really waiting for the elk story.
It was 10-12 yards and it did hit the off shoulder. After shooting the woodies some more today I am going to hunt with what I have been practicing with and and most confident in.
The 520 grain GoldTip with the Magnus 150.
The wood arrows are too inconsistent. I put heads on two other shafts and neither would hit in the same place. An elk with any arrow out a trad how is a trophy and best des that, they are fine eat'n!!!!
I will play with the woodies more later on but for now it's back to shooting the goldtips
QuoteOriginally posted by hybridbow hunter:
When I saw on the video that the 100# sow didn't get an exit hole at 5 yards with that set up, I would be frightened to shoot a mature bull elk with it!
I wish you the best for your elk hunt, and really waiting for the elk story.
It was 10-12 yards and it did hit the off shoulder. After shooting the woodies some more today I am going to hunt with what I have been practicing with and and most confident in.
The 520 grain GoldTip with the Magnus 150.
The wood arrows are too inconsistent. I put heads on two other shafts and neither would hit in the same place. An elk with any arrow out a trad how is a trophy and best des that, they are fine eat'n!!!!
I will play with the woodies more later on but for now it's back to shooting the goldtips
Good choice
Corey based on your hog posts I'd say you shoot that Palmer exceptionally well. Use those same arrows and do what you usually do...put the arrow where it counts and I'm sure you will be fine. I look forward to the tale when you get back
I haven't killed an elk with trad gear. but my setup this year will be a centaur long bow 53@28. Im shooting an easton traditional axis arrow with a 200 grain abowyer wapiti broadhead and a total arrow weight of 550gr.
In my mind 47 pounds @ 26 inches draw is marginal for elk but if that is the bow you for sure are using, I would definitely go with a two blade head.
I have not killed an elk, Corey, but I have killed a couple animals comparable in size. You put any of those 3 arrows in the right place and you will be fine.
Confidence is everything in this game, so I say go with whichever one you know you will kill an elk with!
And good luck!
Bisch
I have taken 6 elk with trad bows, all under 54#. I have tried lighter (under 500 gr.) arrows on elk, but have found that 600+ gr. and a 2 blade head consistently penetrates much better. If you could up your arrow weight and still get great arrow flight, I would recommend that. My .02.
I use a # blade 125 grain Woodsman mounted on a douglas fir arrow...630 to 650 total garin weight. But I'm hunting with a 60# Blacktail recurve.
Have no issues with penetration.
Just my experience is 3 blade heads open up and leave a blood trail better than 2 blades heads, so a lighter weight bow is going to not only NOT penetrate as far, but the wound may not open as well and leave as good a blood trail.
I've killed plenty of elk. This is just my opinion.
i am reading " a man made of elk" the author recommends a minimum weight of 600-650 grs. " heavy arrows for heavy game"
he uses a 145 grain "flat" two blade head on doug fir.
i like carbons but the 3555 GT with 175 delta zwickey or bear razorheads up front, barely makes 500 gr.
since i am moving to north idaho soon, i am working up some 7595 GT with 100 gr insert and 175 head. that gives me another 120 grs. 50#@28 bear super griz
Similar to Bjorn, I shoot a 51# @28" PLX with CX 250's cut to 31.5" and a 300 gr Steel Force 2 blade broadhead up front. Total weight 622 grs. You're at 11 GPP and I think that's ok for your setup.
Is there a point of diminishing returns? I have some wood arrows here that are 600 grains with the Simmons head on them, they drop like rocks from a tree when shot out my 47# bow. I know that accuracy kills!
I shot this bull a few years back with a 52# BW recurve. I was shooting Carbonwood shafts, and a 145 grain STOS two blade broadhead. The shafts had weight tubes in them so the total weight was about 600 gr. As you can see in the photo the bull was hit in the shoulder and I got about 1/2 arrow penetration. The bull only went about 40 yds. This year I am shooting a 50# longbow and Carbon Express arrows with 160 grain STOS for a total weight of 580 gr. I was not aiming for the shoulder. The bull was broadside at about 23 yards and I shot a little to the right of where I was aiming.
(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/jimscol/P1010123sm_1.jpg) (http://s227.photobucket.com/user/jimscol/media/P1010123sm_1.jpg.html)
Jim, did the arrow hit the shoulder blade?
Mike: I don't think that it did. I think it was below the scapula. But it had to go through the shoulder to get through the chest. Jim
Looks well below the scapula. Can't argue with a 40 yard blood trail. I want to shoot one a bit back so it runs down the mountain, past my truck and it dies as it is jumping over my truck bed. That would be good ( I think).
ChuckC
I've shot one bull with a recurve and 540 grain arrow Single bevel griZzly 53 lbs
Basinboy, you can still be just as accurate with the heavier shafts, but you'll need to spend the time with them to train your eye to the new trajectory. Once you decide on what you are going to use, stick with that weight exclusively. When the moment arrives, you don't want to be thinking about anything but the spot you want to hit.
QuoteOriginally posted by looper:
Basinboy, you can still be just as accurate with the heavier shafts, but you'll need to spend the time with them to train your eye to the new trajectory. Once you decide on what you are going to use, stick with that weight exclusively. When the moment arrives, you don't want to be thinking about anything but the spot you want to hit.
Yes but thats the problem i dont have much time to retrain my brain for their trajectory. I leave from work in the morning offshore. The day i get in from offshore we leave for colorado.
This evening i put the simmons head on the 3355 shaft with the 100gr insert for a 560gr arrow. Thats 11.9 grains per pound out my 47# Palmer. It only took me about half an hour to get used to the trajectory.
Thanks for all the advice gang. Best of luck to you all!
Btw, i have killed a bull with my 52# recurve with a 550gr arrow and a 150gr Magnus Stinger. 20 yard shot, watched him tip over at 40 yards :)
Dead elk walking! Good luck Corey
Does CO have a bow weight minimum? And if so, how do they check it? Up to the outfitter?
Minimum is 35#. Never heard of it being checked. Unless they are going to carry equipment to check it, they are pretty much limited to the markings on the bow, IMO.
As far as I know, there is no mention of the actual draw length of the individual hunter. So, it may be perfectly legal for a short drawing hunter to be hunting elk shooting at 25 or 30 pounds. If that hunter Followed the 10 GPP recommendation they could be seriously under bowed, IMO.
It points out the folly of etching these rules in stone. I think it far better to have wildlife agencies and hunting organizations provide information and educational material to the hunting community. That is already done to a great extent and given that, very few hunters are going into the field with inadequate equipment.
That said, Some of the wheel bow set ups with over draw rests, very light arrows and mechanical heads can be inadequate at well over 35#.
All this is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.
QuoteOriginally posted by highlow:
Does CO have a bow weight minimum? And if so, how do they check it? Up to the outfitter?
Minimum draw weight is 35 pounds in Colorado
5. HAND-HELD BOWS A long bow, recurve NEW!
bow or compound bow on which the string is not drawn mechanically or held mechanically under ten- sion. String or mechanical releases are legal if they are hand-drawn or hand-held with no other attachments or connections to bow (except bowstring).
a. Hand-held bows, including compound bows, must
use arrows with a broadhead having a minimum 7/8-inch outside diam- eter or width and minimum of two steel cutting edges. Each cutting edge must be in same plane for entire length of cutting surface.
b. Only legal, hand-held bows allowed during archery seasons.
c. Minimum draw weight of 35 pounds required. Let-off maximum of 80
percent.
d. No part of bow's riser (handle) or track, trough, channel, arrow rest or
other device (excluding cables and bowstring) that attaches to riser can contact, support and/or guide the arrow from a point rearward of the bow's brace height behind the undrawn string.
e. Bows can propel only a single arrow at a time. No mechanisms for auto- matically loading arrows allowed.
f. NEW! Scopes, electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incor- porated into or attached to bow or arrow, with the exception of lighted nocks on arrows. Recording devices such as cameras or video recorders attached to bows may be used as long as they do not cast light toward the target or aid in range finding, sighting or shooting the bow.
g. Hydraulic or pneumatic technology cannot be used to derive or store energy to propel arrows. Explosive arrows prohibited.
"Btw, i have killed a bull with my 52# recurve with a 550gr arrow and a 150gr Magnus Stinger. 20 yard shot, watched him tip over at 40 yards."
If you can shoot a 52# recurve, why wouldn't you use it for elk rather than the 47# bow?
QuoteOriginally posted by Orion:
"Btw, i have killed a bull with my 52# recurve with a 550gr arrow and a 150gr Magnus Stinger. 20 yard shot, watched him tip over at 40 yards."
If you can shoot a 52# recurve, why wouldn't you use it for elk rather than the 47# bow?
I can shoot an 80lb tradbow but I'm not deadly accurate like I am at a weight that is comfortable for me to shoot....
If your not confident in your shooting, you just as well stay home in my book
I've killed elk. I use simmons sharks.
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Basinboy, I dont think Orion was making a comment as to whether or not you are able to shoot a heavier bow, as in physical ability. but, you do have a 54 pound bow in your stable, per your signature.
If a guy can shoot 80, in my experience then 54 feels like a child's bow. That being said, that little bit more efficiency might just make all the difference. Why not use it on an animal that is far larger than deer and hogs?
All that being said, I shoot a 72# bow and often use simmon's tree sharks (this year it's cutthroats, they are local).
Like Cory said, I've killed elk. And it looks like youve shot at least one?
Colorado rules. Does anybody know what this means "and minimum of two steel cutting edges. Each cutting edge must be in same plane for entire length of cutting surface." I can visualize several scenarios of " same plane".
CHuckC
That is meant to define exactly the way a typical two blade is built. There have been heads that had a corkscrew twist to the blades.
So, at least a two blade broadhead with edges that do not twist or spiral.
Not sure I explained that very well.
QuoteOriginally posted by elkbreath:
Basinboy, I dont think Orion was making a comment as to whether or not you are able to shoot a heavier bow, as in physical ability. but, you do have a 54 pound bow in your stable, per your signature.
If a guy can shoot 80, in my experience then 54 feels like a child's bow. That being said, that little bit more efficiency might just make all the difference. Why not use it on an animal that is far larger than deer and hogs?
All that being said, I shoot a 72# bow and often use simmon's tree sharks (this year it's cutthroats, they are local).
Like Cory said, I've killed elk. And it looks like youve shot at least one?
What boils down to is accuracy. Yes I can still shoot my 52# recurve but due to it being a tad too much bow for me these days I chose to hunt with what I have more confidence in which happens to be the lighter longbow. I will put it between the ribs for you guys so I'm sure to get enough penetration :)
May I be so bold? Congrats buddy!
QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Arnette:
May I be so bold? Congrats buddy!
True dat!!
:clapper:
Guess you have the answer now,congrats on your bull. Great shot placement.
:clapper: I think 47# was enough after all :goldtooth: Again, CONGRATS!!!!
Well he killed the elk a day before I predicted (took him two days instead of three) and it ran 15 yards less than I predicted (60 yards instead of 75 yards).
I guess I better start giving this guy more credit! :goldtooth:
Im late to the party but I will post anyway. First congrats on the Fine bull. Second any of your setups are will Do just fine. 47# is plenty, 400 grain arrow will do just fine. You mentioned you would pick one arrow over the other because it is heavier. They are only 40 grains difference. You arent going to see any difference in penetration between the two. Ive actually never weighed my arrows, Im sure most will say my arrows are too light. I will tell you this they work just fine. Ive shot thousands of arrows with no bow damage. Tune your arrows to fly true with a sharp BH I feel is the key to good penetration.
I see some people are chewing on some shoe leather now. Congrats on a fine animal :thumbsup:
Thanks gang! I had confidence in my shooting and knew that if given a shot opportunity I could put it where needed.
I thank God for the blessing.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f205/BasinHunter/Mobile%20Uploads/6DCA7A46-E96C-44BE-9CB1-BAAE65F92DE7.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/BasinHunter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/6DCA7A46-E96C-44BE-9CB1-BAAE65F92DE7.jpg.html)
Girly bow with a puny arrow???????? What the heck just happened to that unsuspecting elk?
Maybe placing a SHARP blade right where it needs to be IS the controlling factor.