I really just got into shooting trad this year and have been shooting religiously for the past 5 months.......and getting pretty good at it!
I have two other trad guys (who are members on tradgang) who have been shooting longer than me and both have some serious shoulder and elbow problems from shooting, maybe they are just getting old. :D
I have also been doing LOTS of reading and it seems that injuries to elbows/shoulders are common to trad hunters.
Should I expect to encounter these issues? Right now I am fine.
I would expect that if you have proper form and alignment, and keep yourself in good shape, there is no reason to expect injuries due to trad shooting! I have been shooting 20yrs, and never had a shooting related injury. I know several guys who have been shooting a lot longer than me with no injuries.
Bisch
I agree with Bisch, I think many of us hurt ourselves due to pulling and holding heavy weight the wrong way.
I have been working on refining my form and I can tell you from experience that the old way, the only way I knew, was really not that great.
The way I now line up, draw, etc not makes the same weight bows feel easy. Holding them for a reasonable time. . easy.
Take the time to learn to do it the right way. It makes a difference.
ChuckC
Don't over bow yourself, don't do marathon shooting sessions and use proper form and you should be good to go, however no one can predict the future.
If you feel tired or strained , take some time off.
If I had a buck for every fella that told me he had a shoulder problem at the last Trad shoot I went to, I'd be several dollars richer.
Lots of Greybeards with shoulder problems these days.
I'm thinking the average bow weight has gone down quite a bit from back in the 80's. Seems like back then everyone had to have a 60+ pound bow.
In a conversation with Terry Bannit from the Footed Shaft a couple of weeks ago at the Horicon Shoot, he mentioned that he has a pretty tough time selling bows over 60#'s these days.
Been shooting mid 40's to low 50's bows for years and see no reason to change.
I've been shooting trad since the late 1980s and never had shoulder problems or any other injuries from it. I shoot 56#@26" normally but range from 45# to 60#. I shoot mostly selfbows now but also shoot glass recurves and long bows.
I shoot low to mid fifty lb recurves and have since the 1990's, lighree weights before then.
At age 62, I pay a lot more attention to pain than I used to, primarily because it takes longer to heal up than it used to.
No problems with shoulders, but I do develop elbow pain if I shoot too many shots at one time. It is easy to overdue it, especially if frustrated with my shooting. Then it is best for me to put things away for another day.
I can't speak for others, but my injuries did not result from shooting bows. Most were from things I did when I was young and stupid. However, some resulted from things I did when old and stupid, such as my elbow injury that caused me to lose about 6 months of shooting time and the bow season last year, which was caused by me trying to lift and pull too much carpet out of the house at one time. My worst shoulder injury was from a collision in a softball game.
Thanks for the input! It has been a few days since I last shot.
I fell pretty confident that I have correct posture and stance!
I am in my 60s, I shoot 5 days a week for about two hours with 6 to 8 arrows a round. Years ago when shooting a 96 pound bow and doing long holds, I felt something give in the base knuckle of my middle finger, it still flares up if I start working on things and doing to much hold time and blank draws when I shoot right handed. Jamming and torquing joints under pressure is not good for them. Two years ago I hurt my back between my shoulder blades when shooting a 32 pound target bow. The hold time was too long, the clicker was set up too long, I was having fun for too long. Oddly, when I go on long shooting binges and just do the Hill swing draw anchor deep release thing, I never hurt myself. I should have listened to John Schulz 44 years ago and got that 55 pound yew for my first custom longbow and then worked up to maybe just 65 pounds, but being young and dumb and strong as a bull, I started out heavy and went heavier.
Watch someone draw a compound with a release and ask yourself which motion looks more unnatural!
Mostly has to do with bow choice in my opinion and the rest is bad mechanics and like you said, old age, things we did to our body when we were young are biting us now .
I agree with all that has been said. Here's one more thing to consider. Try shooting only every other day. Give your muscles and joints a day to recover. Archery is basically weightlifting. Your body needs time to recover between workouts. Just my opinion but...
Lots of folks have shoulder and elbow problems. They're not necessarily caused by archery. Age, occupation and other recreational activities have a lot to do with it.
I've been shooting a stick for more than 50 years. Used to shoot fairly heavy bows, 60#-70#, but now in the 50# range. Shot almost daily for nearly 30 years. Still shoot most days now, and usually a 3-D shoot or two on weekends. Knock on wood, but I've never had shoulder or elbow problems, or any other physical problems that I can attribute to shooting a bow.
staying in some type of shape is important no doubt about that. I know guys that do warm up excerises with one of those tube things before shooting. Just like any athlete warms up before a game. i think it cuts down on those injuries that may not do more than hurt a few days when we are young. But those same injuries come back with a vengeance in later years.
M60x2. I'm 71 and shoot bows in the low to mid 40s. I second the importance of warmups. Watch any athletic event and warmups are an essential part of the preparation. I will warm up by gradually drawing the bow in ever increasing distances with pauses in between to allow my muscles or tendons or whatever to get used to the activity. Knock on wood, so far, so good. Unfortunately, sometimes, no matter what, injuries happen. Best to take steps to mitigate that possibility.
I never use proper back tension, the give away with me was I never could shoot over 60# without shaking,,, 35yrs later I'm starting to have shoulder problems not and recently dropped to 44# from 55#..
friend of mine who always had good back tension recently dropped in draw weight from 79# to 67# and he's 59yrs old and no shoulder problems at all.
My poor shoulder has taken tons of abuse.
15 years of being a catcher, 8 years as a trim carpenter using an old style Senco nail gun, 1000's and 1000's of shotgun recoils to the front side.
I once had a really nice buck right under my stand jump when my shoulder popped while drawing a 70# compound. That was at least 25 years ago when I was a fairly young lad because Ive been hunting with recurves and longbows since the mid 80s.
Stay in shape and shoot often, I shoot bows in the mid 50# range with no problems and no pain. Proper form is key. I shoot almost every day but never a lot of arrows at one time.
QuoteOriginally posted by boinky:
I really just got into shooting trad this year and have been shooting religiously for the past 5 months.......and getting pretty good at it!
I have two other trad guys (who are members on tradgang) who have been shooting longer than me and both have some serious shoulder and elbow problems from shooting, maybe they are just getting old. :D
I have also been doing LOTS of reading and it seems that injuries to elbows/shoulders are common to trad hunters.
Should I expect to encounter these issues? Right now I am fine.
Most of those guys are over bowed, have poor form or shoot like 400+ arrows everyday like Jimmy Blackmon.
Boinky, If you shoot correctly and shoot regularly I don't know why you would have any more shoulder/elbow problems than anybody else who shoots any kind of bow. I'm mid 60's and still shoot bows in the 70/80# range with no problems. I'm not a big guy either, 5'8" 155#. I too read on this site about guys having these problems and don't quite understand why.
some peoples body's quit on them way faster then others. My grandma smoked 3 packs a day, drank and still mowed her lawn and shoveled her drive way until she was 96. some people are just about physically useless after age 55, i guess it really just depends on the person.
getting HURT OR JUST GETTING OLD it will COME A TIME WHEN we cannot shoot trad bows,than grab a Cross Bow relax let the cross bow become your next arrow a bow is a bow the arrow kills.
QuoteOriginally posted by longbowman:
Boinky, If you shoot correctly and shoot regularly I don't know why you would have any more shoulder/elbow problems than anybody else who shoots any kind of bow. I'm mid 60's and still shoot bows in the 70/80# range with no problems. I'm not a big guy either, 5'8" 155#. I too read on this site about guys having these problems and don't quite understand why.
Thanks! I think I'll be just fine, just wanted to get some advice!
I started out with a light bow and will stick with that for a little while.
Many shoulder and elbow injuries can come with age, but mine are not just from trad archery even though I have been doing it for over 50 years. It's also baseball, football, basketball, racquet ball, chopping hundreds of cords of wood .... the list goes on, try to keep yourself in shape, don't over bow yourself and archery can be enjoyed for a long long time. Be good to your body and it will be good to you ... and remember the old saying " if I knew I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself" :biglaugh:
I had my shoulder re-done last fall but that came from college soccer and not trad. Just now starting to be able to shoot again. Hope to make hunting weight by season. May just have to settle on bunnies this year. But hey, I will be back in the woods!
I have some right shoulder issues that prolonged shooting will aggravate, but shooting a bow for 48 years did not cause that problem. All of my joint problems (knee and shoulder) are work related.
hang around a group of tennis players or bowlers if you want to hear about joint/tendon/muscle injuries :)
Proper form is critical. The only archery related shoulder injury I have had came from experimentation with the way I was drawing a heavy bow. That experiment didn't go so well.
When I do not shoot for a while, I may have to start back slowly and not shoot as many arrows per practice session. Form is a big part of it as mentioned above, so starting back shooting slowly works for the form and for the muscles as well.
However, the only pains I have had at 68 came from my work outs for two years starting three years ago with a trainer. When I had leg pains or shoulder pains, working through it with the trainer was better than just not doing anything at all. This led me to believe that like archery, working through any minor shoulder pain can be done slowly and it is better than backing off completely.
I have seen friends have to quit shooting and sell their bows because of arthritis, work injury, or something similar, but that's a whole topic.
I sometimes struggled with tendonitis in my elbow but I can't say that it can all be blamed on archery...I play quite a bit of tennis and that's a major factor. Still, I found that some of my longbows could be a little tough on my shoulder and elbow. I found that my arrows were a bit too light...I went heavier and that helped a great deal. haven't had any problems in several years now
I worry a lot more about getting injured muscles or joints shoveling snow or some such than when I'm shooting.
I developed an injury from lifting weights plus shooting. I've been waiting on the AC joint in my shoulder to heal for about 10 months..... It's either time/waiting or have the joint removed.
I'm trying to wait it out. I'm 41 for whatever that might be worth.
I also read a lot of shoulder issues here as well. I tend to think, due to my experience described below, that other things contributed more or as much to bow shooting.
I'm 61 and have been shooting since I was a teenager. Never shot (recurves) much above 50#s. I did go through a span of 34 years shooting compounds in the 600-73# range. I love to shoot and if I'm not hurt or traveling it has been a rare day most of my life that I didn't shoot 4-30 arrows or more per day.
I started having some bow shoulder issues when I first tried to return to recurves in December 2008. It took until August of 2009, doing nothing, for the pain to just stop one day.
This past December pain returned to the bow shoulder. It has been with me every day since. I can shoot but it "stings" when I release the string. It is front of the shoulder radiating to the bicep. Doctor and oath says no damage other than bicep tendons rubbing against curving bone joint structure in the shoulder that they say can happen as we age.
Interesting thing (not really fun interesting though) both times the shoulder began hurting I was doing the same thing. I was lifting and carrying too much weight (furniture and lumber) AND exercising with a recurve that was about 10 pounds heavier than I intended to hunt with.
I contend the furniture and lumber (overhead stuff) inflamed the tendons.
I'm concerned right now that a once in a lifetime archery elk tag (KY) that I drew may not get used this year. I can shoot (killed a bear with the curve in June) I just can't practice much and I am hoping to extend my effective range by 10 yards for the elk hunt.
The doctor has prescribed naproxen (500MG) twice daily and some silly (seems so) arm raises with 3 pound weights to strengthen the bow shoulder. Ice it too. Because these seems silly (read ineffective) too me I'm not too diligent following doctor's orders.
He has offered a shot of steroid for the elk hunt but that doesn't help me extend my range through practice. Surgery (arthroscopic) is 3rd option but I guess that would put me down through the hunting season?
Anyone ever do the exercises and naproxen and have the shoulder recover?
I've had 3 rotator cuff surgeries.I'm just now getting back to shooting after my January 22 slice and dice. I had a complete separation of the lower bicep tendon and a near complete separation of the ligaments that connect the deltoid to the shoulder. At PT they told me they had an electrician that has had both shoulders done TWICE. That from doing a lot of overhead work. IMHO some of us are just built just a little different, and have bone spurs that rub on tendons and ligaments. I've heated with wood for 30 years, cut it down, cut it up, haul, split, stack, haul then dump the ashes. Lots of wear and tear. Many times I wasn't "set" for the weight of wet oak, thinking it was something lighter, and tore things up a little bit. That X 100 and I needed surgery. If shoulder pain lingers, see a professional ortho. NO amount of chiropractor can heal torn ligaments and tendons. Feel free to PM.
I was just going to post what M60gunner said. I see guys just string up a bow and pull her back to full draw with no limbering up and warm up. Do some range of motion exercises for a bit and let your muscles get used to the draw weight a bit more gradually. Also understand that it doesn't take real heavy poundage to kill most animals that most of us hunt. I have heard so many older archers lamenting that they shot bows that were too heavy in their youth. By the way, I am 71 and have been shooting over 50 years and no shoulder problems. :pray:
You might think I am crazy but if you have sholder joint problems try switching to a high quality mattress. I realized that when I slept a certain way on my shoulder it would be agravated and it never got a chance to clear up inflamation. I also found if you take a couple Benadryl about twenty minutes before you shoot it helps. If you feel a little sore after you shoot ice your shoulder.
I recently tore up my left shoulder, basically destroyed my left collar bone and now I've got 3 steel plates, numerous screws and huge scar. I only hope that I can still pull my #50 Bear Kodiak Mag by the time the season gets here? I don't want to push things, but I really need to start hitting that foam like Right Now!?
QuoteOriginally posted by buckeye_hunter:
I developed an injury from lifting weights plus shooting. I've been waiting on the AC joint in my shoulder to heal for about 10 months..... It's either time/waiting or have the joint removed.
I'm trying to wait it out. I'm 41 for whatever that might be worth.
Hurt my AC joint yanking a saddle off of a bucking horse. Kept shooting all of my bows. It was painful, but kept on doing it. When I had kneee surgery I decided to have the surgery on the AC joint as well. Best surgery I ever had. Shooting my 45# bowfishing bow within 7 days. The doctor said I wouldn't do any damage, and it was just a matter of how much pain I could take. The good thing about this surgery is that it is also a preventative of sorts, by opening up the rotator cuff interval and helping to avoid future impingment/tears.
I tore the Bicep long head tendon off from my right shoulder this past April, while lifting. And the surgeon said,that this type of injury was pretty much irreversible,and surgery would only be cosmetic.Now after three months of rest and rehab I'm back shooting my longbows.
I just found out Monday when I went in for a cortisone shot that the A/C resection isn't that big a deal. The way they explained it at first, I though the entire joint would be removed. Now I know they only shave a few millimeters off the bone and it can provide years of longevity to the shoulder.
If the pain from my AC joint comes back after this shot, then I'm having the surgery. I have heard from too many people saying it is the best thing they ever did.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowwild:
[QB]
"The doctor has prescribed naproxen (500MG) twice daily and some silly (seems so) arm raises with 3 pound weights to strengthen the bow shoulder. Ice it too. Because these seems silly (read ineffective) too me I'm not too diligent following doctor's orders."
So I guess I'd ask why go to the doctor if you don't take his advice? If I'd reacted the same way to the physical therapy prescribed for my back pain and my knee replacement, I probably wouldn't be walking.
Sometimes those "silly", un-manly exercises really do work out the problems without over-stressing things.
QuoteOriginally posted by GreyGoose:
I worry a lot more about getting injured muscles or joints shoveling snow or some such than when I'm shooting.
Absolutely. I've got two really messed up rotator cuffs, along with herniated and ruptured discs in my back and neck, and two worn out knees that need to be replaced.
Obviously my knee problems weren't caused by shooting a bow, but the rest of my problems weren't either, as far as I know. It was all caused by years of hard physical work.
I have to be careful not to over do it by shooting too much, or I'm unable to for a while. I shoot a few arrows each day to stay sharp, but I sure wish I could shoot like I used to.
So let me be a lesson to you. Shoot your bow all you want, and stay away from hard physical labor. ;)
Bob
One thing we can all do to reduce injuries that hasnt been mentioned is myofacial release. That is, taking a softball,lacross ball or whatever and roll your forearms,shoulders,biceps and triceps and around the elbow(not directly on bone) on the ball. If it hurts that means you have a 'trigger point' and you keep rolling on it and it will eventually stop hurting. If you have alot of pain when doing this you should do it daily until the pain is gone.
What is happening is over time you get knots in your muscles and facia(the thing covering your muscles like a sack) and that causes pain,decreased strength and reduced flexibility.
Also,stretch your shoulders,chest and forearms.
When you lose fexibility you lose strength,when you lose strength other muscles have to help then you will get injured more than likly.
I should mention Iam not a doctor but I am a personal trainer.
Most of the people including me injure themselves doing other thing than shooting a bow or they have arthritis in their joints.
Yes, warm up and shoot sensibly but also be careful in everyday activities.
Like the guy said, if I had known how long I was going to live I would have taken better care of myself. :-))
Warming up is always good practice for any activity, however I use a bow weight I can shoot comfortably with my muscles cold.The reason being after sitting in the woods for a few hours not moving, that animal isn't going to let me do some arm circles before shooting
I have a crappy shoulder brought on from too much baseball and football and too much weight lifting. I've had to change my shot sequence to compensate but no big deal. In the past, I liked to hold at anchor for at least a 5 count but recently I've had to change that. I like the new shot sequence I've switched to better, seems to fit me better anyway.