Trad Gang

I've had about 5 point inserts and one unibushing come loose in TWO DAYS!!!!!

The epoxy held like a champ for 1-2 years and now suddenly it's turning loose!

Carbon and aluminum, both.

It is "2 Ton/Clear Weld Epoxy System"
made by ITW Performance Polymers, Riviera Beach, FL.

 :help:    :confused:    :banghead:

Hmmmm. Not sure why it would fail in carbons, but with aluminiums you'll get a layer of oxide underneath the glue that will eventually part company with the ally itself.

They were mostly on the aluminums. The unibushing was on a carbon.
Thanks for the info on the aluminum.

JB weld, problem solved.

Maybe it should be called 1-2 year epoxy    :D

If you want your insert PERMANENTLY glued in get some Steelforce "Beyond bond" or "Beyond Bond Flex". You will not be able to remove the insert without destroying the shaft, carbon or aluminum.

-Sharps

Thanks, Sharpster.

Black Max super glue never lost an insert ever the best there is for any shaft carbon,aluminum

That Beyond Bond is merely CA glue with a high price tag. Go to a hobby shop and get you some thick CA and it is EXACTLY the SAME glue. but with a larger bottle and a lower price.

Go to your local golf pro shop and get some golfsmith club building epoxy. It outperforms anything I've seen, and unlike JB weld, you can get it to release w/ heat.

I use PC Superpoxie on my carbons. Never turns loose even after years of hitting trees, rocks and the occasional deer. Just be sure to lightly roughen up the inside of your shafts first.

QuoteOriginally posted by atlatlzoom:
That Beyond Bond is merely CA glue with a high price tag. Go to a hobby shop and get you some thick CA and it is EXACTLY the SAME glue. but with a larger bottle and a lower price.

Sorry but I'll have to politely disagree. Yes Beyond Bond is a CA adhesive but it is definately not exactly the same formula that is available at your local hobby shop.

We use CA glues daily in our shop for a variety of permanant glue ups of different materials and have had trouble with all of the name brands and especially the no name brands. I heard somewhere that Beyond bond had won some CA glue test for a few years in a row so we tried it. There is no comparison, and we don't waste our money on the cheep stuff anymore.

-Sharps

Had some problems with some products and switched to Goat Tuff, no problems lately.  Beyond Bond is good stuff too.

Goat Tuff is also heat reversible (so good for adapters in broadheads)

BTW - forget the heat for removal for carbons.  Use the "drill rod" / swing hammer method.  It gets them out (though you won't be able to do it with aluminums.....)

QuoteUse the "drill rod" / swing hammer method

:confused:

Martin, what Bob is talking about is this.

Get a drill bit that is just barely the diameter that just fits inside the carbon shaft so that it will still slide inside the shaft and put it in.  Then, as hard as you can, swing the arrow downward so that the drill bit travels from the nock end to the insert as fast as posslbe.  It is like you were trying to sling the dril bit out of the arrow shaft if the insert wasn't in there with centripetal force.  Doing this over and over again "jackhammers" the insert loose fromt the shaft.  When you see the insert is just about worked loose, watch where you sling it carefully because it can come out with great force.

This works quite well and doesn't damage the resins that hold the carbon fibers together like heat does.  I also like to put an old nock in while I'm doing it so the bit doesn't fall out the end every time I raise the arrow to sling it.

Hope this explanation makes sense.

Man i wish i can keep and arrow for 1 year. I go through 3 or 4 dz a year

Thanks for the explaination, ejes.

wtpops, I don't shoot near as often as I should .  

thanks ejes

the exact same thing happened to me when i was makin my bow!!!!

I've used epoxies, goat tuff, JB weld, etc.for carbons. But when I started building 1000 grain arrows, and shooting them out of 80# bows, the increased forces began to disassemble arrows. After lots of testing, and recommendations from Ken Beck and Rick McGowan, I settled on Gorilla Glue with significant prep work (sanding, detergent washing, alcohol rinse, and water rinse) before the final assembly. After lots of tests shooting into railroad ties, plywood, and a couple of (now) dead buffalo in Australia, I've had no glue failures. - Jay Campbell, JD

I was using JB weld also, but Ive had a few failers. I hit the rebarb behind a target, and had the insert backout on impact. I did prep by using sand paper on the insert, and denatured alcohol on the shaft, but they still came out. I may have to try gorilla glue next. I would just be concerned with the expantion factor of it.

Regarding expansion (3-5 x by volume with gorilla glue), I put the arrows point down, put a boot over the fletching end, put a weight of 2 pounds on the boot heel, and support the boot against a table edge so it keeps the arrows vertical. I haven't had the glue seep out of the joint, and I am liberal in the application.

Remember, Gorrilla glue is nasty. What it gets on, it stays on.

Now, when it comes to arrow vs rock or metal at full force, I've had a few disentegrate by driving the point into the shaft, but surprisingly few (I'm really hard on arrows). I don't consider that a glue failure, but rather a failure of the arrow launcher. I use Gold Tip big game 100s, and find them incredibly tough. - Jay Campbell, JD